New TDKR trailer today!!!

I saw the Avengers tonight. Now, I'll grant that the folk who attend a midnight premiere tend to be, shall we say, fairly devoted. But at the same rate, comic book movies attract Marvel fans and DC fans a lot. And there were a fair number of teenybopper running around and acting a fool too. And when that TDKRises trailer finished... the kids behind me made fun of it. I'm sure you can imagine the sentiment. "THAT is Bane?!??!" A glass bottle fell over and made that tinkling sound and could be heard all across the theater.

THAT is how cold they were left by the trailer.

Anybody care to argue again that Avengers is going to get outgrossed by TDKRises? Cuz folks, between how awesome the Avengers movie is and how lackluster TDKRises looks to be... well, Nolan better have one hell of a trick up his sleeve, that's all I can tell you.

thecolorsblend wrote:I saw the Avengers tonight. Now, I'll grant that the folk who attend a midnight premiere tend to be, shall we say, fairly devoted. But at the same rate, comic book movies attract Marvel fans and DC fans a lot. And there were a fair number of teenybopper running around and acting a fool too. And when that TDKRises trailer finished... the kids behind me made fun of it. I'm sure you can imagine the sentiment. "THAT is Bane?!??!" A glass bottle fell over and made that tinkling sound and could be heard all across the theater.

THAT is how cold they were left by the trailer.

Anybody care to argue again that Avengers is going to get outgrossed by TDKRises? Cuz folks, between how awesome the Avengers movie is and how lackluster TDKRises looks to be... well, Nolan better have one hell of a trick up his sleeve, that's all I can tell you.

Here's what gets me though. Other sites have predicted that THE DARK KNIGHT RISES will out-gross THE AVENGERS. However, BOX OFFICE MOJO is arguably one of the more reputable sites & even they're predicting this crap?! Have people taken leave of their senses?!

Just while ago I came into the room & caught the very last part of a review of Avengers on Time-Warner Cable. Some guy they have named Neal(sp?) Rosen. I didn't catch it all but I did hear him say it was 'too long' & some other crapola about, I guess, it not 'totally' delivering or something.....but it was fun nonetheless? He gave it a 3 out of 4. Now, why is it that when these 'critics' come on they have to always bash the film? I mean, I'm planning on seeing it tonight but I don't think it's gonna be TRANSFORMERS, critics!

Here's what I think I'm perceiving in duh media. No matter how good Marvel's films are, there's something inherently wrong with them. Popcorn fun, if you will. But the latest Bat-film from duh almighty Nolan? An Academy Award winning film! On every level! Never mind that Nolan totally got the villain wrong. Somehow he gets a 'pass'. And expect Avengers to somehow finally get a 'brain-dead' comparison. And I'll tell you something else true fans are getting tired of, Bale's gravely voice for Batman! I know, I see it online often enough! Bale, you're not Michael Keaton. Move on!

And let's face it. If you compare the trailers for the respective films, TDKR pales in comparison! A dull, drab-looking film with lackluster villains & I dare say, even Catwoman, because even though I like Anne Hathaway, I don't really see anything in her costume or presentation that's gonna be able to top Avengers. And don't even get me started on mini-Bane!

Yes, it'll be very interesting for the end of the summer to get here & box office totals finally be tallied for all involved. I have a feeling many a person is going to be eating crow.

Funny thing my theater mistaking played tdkr first trailer last night then the new one. I totally loled on that.

I predict that more people will buy soda than popcorn this weekend while watching 'The Avengers'. And if I'm wrong, who cares?

Same thing.

I see Bale is again having that weird mouth open look and talks like a retard. Does he not have nostril holes in his bat suit or something? Sigh... Im getting pretty fucking tired of Nolan's Batman. I liked Batman Begins. A LOT. Even with all it's flaws (fight scenes where we see nothing thanks to darkness and crappy camera work - ok Nolan, the viewers perspective is ok, once or twice, not ALL THE DAMN TIME, the flimsy action sequences, some lame editing, Katie Holmes, crappy dialogue here and there and showing up some lines in our faces over and over....why do we fall...sigh, we get it!!) it's one of my favorite comic book movies, it is. And Bale was good as Batman. For me, nothing touches B89 - but that's a different topic all together. Despite being in a suit that was really a giant piece of rubber, Bale did a damn good job. He was convincing.

But then TDK happened. You know, in Begins at least the cowl was great on the suit. Gave Bale a large looking neck and Batman appear properly intimidating. The TDK suit with the weird small cowl makes him look....well, weird, and small. But that's the least of the problems. The growling suddenly became way over the top and Batman developed a LISP!!! (nothing againt's people with speech impediments, but Batman isn't supposed to have one) started to have his mouth open all the time, breathing heavily and almost hyperventilating, as if they tried to make him look tired....but from what? He wasn't being chased and beaten by Killer Croc as I recall it.

For me, Batman in TDK, aside from a few good moments in some scenes, felt NOTHING like Batman. And it seems this will continue in TDKR. It also seems this will yet again NOT be that much about Batman, but more (and Nolan confirms this with his comments) about Bruce Wayne. We already HAD one movie centered around Bruce. Begins. We had another movie where Batman was really not the main character and seemed more like one of the cops just along for the ride. Now again, it seems Batman will be left out. Worse even, this time he is going to get walked all over again. By a 5'9, 190 pounded Bane.

I suffered through Joker with make up. I suffered through Joker not really being a Joker. Because it was a well written part and Heath did a well enough job (he has nothing on Nicholson). But Bane I don't think I can handle. Not because I think a guy of Hardy's size (in weight/height stats only, not Hardys body) can't be intimidating and capable of destroying a bigger guy physically, because I know that's not true but because the main characteristic of Bane, before everything, is his physically imposing size and strength. Induced by toxin yes, but still. Hardy looks SMALLER than Batman. Not only that, but for 190 pounds at 5'9, he looks like SHIT! ´´amazing body transformation`` (as said by some WB idiot) my ass. I looked more physically imposing at 15 years of age than Hardy does in TDKR. Nolan's Bane may be a well written villain and Hardy IS a talented actor but this is not BANE. It's a new villain, inspired by Bane but it really has shit to do with the actual character. Of course some Nolan fans have already told me I know shit about Bane and that Bane is all about everything else (think a mix of The Joker and Riddler thrown in), LOL!

Add to this Gotham once again looks nothing like Gotham but simply another big dull city, Catwoman in her shitty costume and I am officially sick and tired of this garbage. This is not the Batman I know and love. TDKR may win over critics, it may score numerous Oscar nominations, take serious cash at the BO and increase the ever expanding Nolan cult, but for me, ever since TDK, Nolan's Batman has little to do with the actual Batman. It's an alternate universe Batman thrown into Nolan's brothers big love for police crime drama and Batman is just another cop.

I could go on and on but and bring up more points why I dislike Nolans take but im tired of it. Im glad he's gone after this and I hope he stays the fuck away in the future.

Well at least this is nolan last flick. I too have enjoyed them. But it sucks nolan took out the real comicbooky stuff. And man I really would have liked to see him tackle robin/batgirl properly. Now who ever takes the bat reigns next. I hope they can take the right approach of dark, gritty and character driven stuff and work in comicbook stuff like lazarus pits, venom, freeze, and all that. Just think if we had ironman like film for batman could be a good comic film.

I always thought Nolan's films were a good middleground between fiction and reality. It doesn't really go too far either way for me. We've seen many interpretation of this character and I hope after this one WB will take a new approach.

Stockslivevan wrote:I always thought Nolan's films were a good middleground between fiction and reality. It doesn't really go too far either way for me. We've seen many interpretation of this character and I hope after this one WB will take a new approach.

If the approach the director takes requires him to butcher villains like Ra's al-Ghul, the Joker and Bane, he's taking the wrong motherfucking approach.

I don't agree with that, especially with The Joker.

Stockslivevan wrote:I don't agree with that, especially with The Joker.

It isn't about what you do or don't agree with, it's about facts. The Joker in TDK has "jack" and "shit" in common with the character from the comics. Is the character in TDK a threat worthy of Batman? Did Ledger give a good performance? The answers to those questions may well be yes but it takes a fuckload more than that to be the Joker. And that character wasn't.

What do you think it takes?

thecolorsblend wrote:

Stockslivevan wrote:I don't agree with that, especially with The Joker.

It isn't about what you do or don't agree with, it's about facts. The Joker in TDK has "jack" and "shit" in common with the character from the comics. Is the character in TDK a threat worthy of Batman? Did Ledger give a good performance? The answers to those questions may well be yes but it takes a fuckload more than that to be the Joker. And that character wasn't.

I believe this is because duh Nolan felt like the Joker in the comics is TOO COMIC-BOOKY so he goes & 'reinvents' the character into something that he himself felt was more believable. And apparently duh masses ate it up, without a doubt in part to Ledger's death which elevated him to rock star status. And I've said it before but what gets me is how these same people now bash on Jack Nicholson's portrayal as somehow now being 'buffoon' & 'moronic' & somehow 'Ledger got the heart & spirit of the character' blah blah blah! Gimme a break!

And now duh Nolan is doing the same thing with Bane, only this time it doesn't even resemble the character! And duh Nolanites can hardly wait to pre-order their IMAX tickets, which incidentally, is not in 3-D because duh Nolan doesn't believe in it. Yes, I know everyone doesn't like 3-D but shouldn't the film still offer the choice?

Stockslivevan wrote:What do you think it takes?

The Joker has a really sick sense of humor. Everything he does has comedy (as he sees it anyway) as the bottom line. The joke may not be explained to the reader/audience, but you know that the Joker thinks there's a joke in there somewhere. And that's why he laughs. As someone else once said, he'd kill you because he doesn't like your tie. Or he'd not kill you because he does like it.

TDK gave us a fairly methodical psycopath. Had TDK's principal villain been Black Mask... well, I'm still not sure it would've worked but it would've come closer to the mark than the Joker would've. There's just no joke (expressed or implied) in any of the Ledgeker's actions in TDK.

And this is not to speak of the makeup vs. bleached skin thing. The Killing Joke has been pretty much total canon for years now. Sure, there's a little out clause in there ("multiple choice") but the underlying fact of it all is that the Joker's mutilations damaged a lot more than just his appearance. It's central to his worldview.

Look, if you dig on Nolan's version of Batman, hey, more power to you. I'm not out to convert anybody to a cause. But I've loved these comics my entire life and it pisses me off when some dickhead filmmaker comes along and immediately assumes that there's something inherently wrong with them that must be changed in order for him to believe in the material. If that's what it takes, I say pack up your shit and get out. I'd rather these characters be dead, buried and forgotten for who and what they are than being made successful by changing them into something they're not.

For me there is no definitive take on The Joker. There's Cesar Romero's, Jack Nicholson's Mark Hammil's, Heath Ledger's then who the fuck knows that will play it next. They all have their own niche and I appreciate them all. What they all have in common though is the clown motif and that they all want to make a joke out of Gotham and Batman one way or another. Perhaps this is because of my Bond fan side, as there are six Bond actors all with very different approaches, that I'm able to easily accept one in a role. As long as that concept of the character is intact I believe the integrity of the character is intact. I don't think Ledger broke it. Perhaps bended it, I think that's the correct term. It's not like he knocked up a woman, left her behind and started stalking her five years later.

Totally colors if you can do good preformance and get the essence/traits right it makes the character a lot better to watch. Like jack did with joker in 89.

Stockslivevan wrote:For me there is no definitive take on The Joker. There's Cesar Romero's, Jack Nicholson's Mark Hammil's, Heath Ledger's then who the fuck knows that will play it next. They all have their own niche and I appreciate them all. What they all have in common though is the clown motif and that they all want to make a joke out of Gotham and Batman one way or another. Perhaps this is because of my Bond fan side, as there are six Bond actors all with very different approaches, that I'm able to easily accept one in a role. As long as that concept of the character is intact I believe the integrity of the character is intact. I don't think Ledger broke it. Perhaps bended it, I think that's the correct term. It's not like he knocked up a woman, left her behind and started stalking her five years later.

Bond didn't have in excess of thirty years of published material behind before he was adapted; the Joker did. The Romero, Nicholson and Hamill versions were adapted fairly well from the comics of their day. What those versions did was more or less in line with what the comics were up to.

The Ledgeker? Not so much.

Besides the messy hair, I really don't see how Ledger's Joker is drastically different. A psychopath in clown make up trying to make a joke out of Gotham, its people, its leaders and of course Batman.

Stockslivevan wrote:Besides the messy hair, I really don't see how Ledger's Joker is drastically different. A psychopath in clown make up trying to make a joke out of Gotham, its people, its leaders and of course Batman.

Can you see the Ledgeker ever doing anything in those two pages? Because I sure can't.

Definitely the hat.

Colors, what Batman comic & issue/year was that from? The whole 'chemical' issue & distorting the faces of the fish sounds familiar. Hmmmm! Sounds 'fishy' to me, like maybe BATMAN '89.

Ya think?!

Detective Comics #475. It's the tail end of the legendary Steve Englehart/Marshall Rogers run. The complete run was put together in a trade some years back, although the name escapes me (and I don't think it's Dark Detective, which was kind of a sequel). This is regarded as one of the all time great runs Batman has ever had, which is really saying something. There are some real gems in the Englehart/Rogers stuff.

If elements of it seem familiar, it's because it was part of Tom Mankeywhatsis's script for a Batman movie from the 80's... elements of which survived into B89. B89 isn't an adaptation, you understand, but the influences, though somewhat watered down and reconceptualized, are there.

Overall, I cannot more highly recommend the Englehart/Rogers Detective Comics run. If you knew jackshit about Batman going into it, you'll have a pretty good handle on him coming out. If you consider yourself a Batman fan, this series will only make you more so. There's just no way to lose as far as I'm concerned.

You may already have read some of it though. Issues from it are reprinted in The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told vol. 1 and 2 and The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told.

I'm actually pleased to see that the '89 Batman was inspired by the source material. Even though not a literal adaptation of that story, the influence can't be denied.

It's a far cry from Bat-films today ain't it? Where the director feels the need to dismiss the source material because it's too 'comic-booky' & the audience just won't be able to 'get it'. And it's somehow not realistic.

A far cry indeed!

When did Nolan say stuff like that?

Anyway, that page definitely struck me as something of Mankiewicz. It's been years since I read his script so my mind is foggy on his Joker besides the gag where he bombed a newspaper stand.

Would have been interesting if a Mankiewicz script were ever used for Batman. That would have been three of my favorite franchises he participated in (the other two being Superman and James Bond). He's one of my favorite Hollywood screenwriters and it's a shame he passed cuz I always wanted to get an autograph or just shake his hand. He was never strong on plot but what he made up for that was strong characterization and great dialogue. He knew how to handle those aspects the best.

non_amos wrote:I'm actually pleased to see that the '89 Batman was inspired by the source material. Even though not a literal adaptation of that story, the influence can't be denied.

You ever read The Case of the Chemical Syndicate from Detective Comics #27? I challenge anybody to read that and not think of Batman beating up the thugs on the roof, the Axis Chemical shootout, "Descent Into Mystery" and other stuff in B89. Anybody who says Burton didn't take inspiration from the comics doesn't know what he's talking about. In fact, at one point I think I put together a bunch of screen caps that prove Burton took a lot from various comics. There's way too much shit there for it to be coincidental. Can't remember if I ever posted it all here though.

non_amos wrote:It's a far cry from Bat-films today ain't it? Where the director feels the need to dismiss the source material because it's too 'comic-booky' & the audience just won't be able to 'get it'. And it's somehow not realistic.

A far cry indeed!

Stockslivevan wrote:When did Nolan say stuff like that?

He can't and won't say that. At least now. But in a few years... well, you never know. I personally think it's implicit in his attitude. He's made a bunch of unnecessary changes and modifications to various characters. Some are more egregious than others but they total up to a borderline total reinvention of the Batman mythos.

The other thing is this attitude of putting his Batman in a unique universe rather than do what many previous DC films have done in at least implying a shared universe, even if jack shit has ever been done to develop those concepts. Love 'em or hate 'em, Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, Singerman and Green Lantern all made varying degrees of allowance for the existence of other superheroes; Nolan has not and, presumably, will not ever do that.

Years ago, DC published an Elseworlds Superman story called "Secret Identity", where a real world dude named Clark Kent gained Superman's powers. To me, the Nolan movies are basically the same thing for Batman. They're an Elseworlds story of a real world dude named Bruce Wayne who becomes Batman. They may be okay for what they are but they're not Batman to me. Not now, not ever.

well i dont recall if nolan ever out right said he didnt like the comicbooky elements of batman. But with him wanting his films to be more realistic/realism angle he went with. That totally undercuts the more fantasy/magical elments from book like going with villains like freeze, to doing bane more properly and all that. Which his approach was somewhat in the right direction. He was able to bring batman back into view after shucmaker pretty much pissed away on batman in the 90s. Now if we can get a director on board that can bring in realistic/realism aspects while still incorporating the more magical/fantasy aspects of characters, stories and events. We could see a better rounded out batman film. Like i said the other day if we could do what marvel studios has done with there characters. With showing real world aspects/characters in crazy fantasy situations and how they work within that. I think we would get an even better batman.