"Superman Returns" As A Christopher Reeve Film/What "Superman Returns" should have been if it were truly a semi sequel...

As was started in the "Observation" thread, I got curious thinking about what a mid-90's Reeve film using basically, but not all, the story idea's from Singerman Peeps would be like it. Who would I have cast?

Superman - Christopher Reeve (Duh)

Lois Lane - Talia Shire or Mimi Rogers

Talia Shire has the acting chops to pull off an older, jaded Lois Lane. And, if you keep the stupid "kid" sub-plot, she ACTUALLY would look like a mother.


Mimi Rogers back then was a beautiful woman, but also a decent actress. She could have captured that "wide-eyed innocence" that Kidder brought to Lois, but also show that she had been around for a while.


Perry White - Jackie Cooper was too "golden" by 'Superman IV', so he wouldn't be feasible for this film. So I would go for:

Ed Asner


Come on, the guy would have been perfect.

Jimmy Olsen - Marc McClure

He would just need to drop the "Ah, gee" Jimmy that was played-out by 'Superman IV'. And definitely not the "homosexual crush" Jimmy from Singerman, either. Hell, he should either by a full-time staff photog, or a reporter by now. Singer keeping him as the freelance Jimmy was another idiotic move.

Richard White - Billy Zane

Coming off 'Titanic', which I have NEVER seen, Zane would have been a good fit for an older Lois. And romantic rival for Superman/Clark Kent.


Lex Luthor - Gene Hackman. (Another duh)

Kitty - Penelope Ann Miller

I like her. Sue me.


The kid, the lame henchmen don't really need "names". As they didn't in Singerman either.

But who would YOU pick if you could have?

Talia Shire, in that pic, seems to capture that same 'essence' like we got out of both Teri Hatcher & Erica Durance, respectively. That's really all I have to base that on right now. It's just that's how the pic struck me, like how they looked in the role but maybe with a bit more 'maturity'. I really don't know much else about her. A project for Google I guess.

Ed Asner I have to agree on also. Maybe he's too old now but the mid-90's would've been a different story. But interesting thing about Luthor though. Sure, Hackman would've been a no-brainer, obviously, but in the years since then I've frequently seen Billy Zane's name come up for the role of Lex on duh Internets, especially since he started sporting the bald look. But no way would he have usurped Hackman. I did see TITANIC myself (with the wife of course but on VHS) & I remember Zane in that film. I believe he was the 'jilted fiance' or whatever of the woman that Leonardo DiCaprio stole away from him.

Man! This is something when 'laymen' like us can actually come up with a better cast for a film than a supposedly 'professional' director can, as evidenced by AP's list. And it also reminds me of what we possibly could've gotten if Reeve had come back. Like I said before, if he had reprised his role at the right time, it might have even prevented his accident. It also would've prevented 19 years of 'development hell' which really now is more like a quarter of a century.

non_amos wrote:Talia Shire, in that pic, seems to capture that same 'essence' like we got out of both Teri Hatcher & Erica Durance, respectively. That's really all I have to base that on right now. It's just that's how the pic struck me, like how they looked in the role but maybe with a bit more 'maturity'. I really don't know much else about her. A project for Google I guess.

Dude.

DUDE.

Talia Shire. Adrian Balboa. Rocky's muse? The love of his life?





Sooo tempted to neg you for not knowing that......

But I won't because everyone makes mistakes.

But dude.

Apologist Puncher wrote:

non_amos wrote:Talia Shire, in that pic, seems to capture that same 'essence' like we got out of both Teri Hatcher & Erica Durance, respectively. That's really all I have to base that on right now. It's just that's how the pic struck me, like how they looked in the role but maybe with a bit more 'maturity'. I really don't know much else about her. A project for Google I guess.

Dude.

DUDE.

Talia Shire. Adrian Balboa. Rocky's muse? The love of his life?





Sooo tempted to neg you for not knowing that......

But I won't because everyone makes mistakes.

But dude.

Oh! I see what you mean now. Yeah, I've seen ROCKY probably several times in the past but not in a long time. I guess I should've put '2&2' together but I didn't. My bad. I probably didn't overly scrutinize the cast of that film for whatever reason. Beyond Stallone, Meredith, & Weathers I probably couldn't have even named any other cast members without doing a search. Again, my bad.

Hey, non_amos:

*psst* She was ALSO in 'The Godfather'....

non_amos wrote:Man! This is something when 'laymen' like us can actually come up with a better cast for a film than a supposedly 'professional' director can, as evidenced by AP's list. And it also reminds me of what we possibly could've gotten if Reeve had come back. Like I said before, if he had reprised his role at the right time, it might have even prevented his accident. It also would've prevented 19 years of 'development hell' which really now is more like a quarter of a century.

HollyWeird just likes to feed on it's own regurgitation. They think they know us better than WE do.

And they're surprised that they are so wrong so often?

Uhhhhh............my bad again?! Talk about embarrassing! But if these films had been films like the original STAR TREK films, I could probably have even told you the actors playing secondary characters. I don't know why but the horror & sci-fi genres seem to peak my interest more in such 'factoids' than other types of films do. I mean, even with THE GODFATHER, sure, I knew Brando & Pacino. Could I name anyone else? Probably not, except for DeNiro in the sequel. I may know the main characters & the rest get swept to the curb, lost in the shuffle, whatever. I guess I have egg on face in this post.

non_amos wrote:Uhhhhh............my bad again?! Talk about embarrassing! But if these films had been films like the original STAR TREK films, I could probably have even told you the actors playing secondary characters. I don't know why but the horror & sci-fi genres seem to peak my interest more in such 'factoids' than other types of films do. I mean, even with THE GODFATHER, sure, I knew Brando & Pacino. Could I name anyone else? Probably not, except for DeNiro in the sequel. I may know the main characters & the rest get swept to the curb, lost in the shuffle, whatever. I guess I have egg on face in this post.

It's all good. The Rocky movies WERE my childhood, along with 'Rambo', 'Star Wars', 'Star Trek', Saturday morning cartoons, of which there was a RAMBO one too!, among others.

And I have a really good memory.....

Apologist Puncher wrote:Hey, non_amos:

*psst* She was ALSO in 'The Godfather'....

If you hadn't said it, I would've had to.

On the one hand, she's an interesting choice for Lois in a Reeve Superman Returns movie. But on the other hand, seriously, would she have been any worse than Bosworth? I think not.

The only deal with your casting bit is that you would've needed to do this film by around 1994 as Reeve had his accident in 1995 or so. Plus, even though the cast should be a little ripe, too far along in the late 90's would've made some of them a bit too old even for a movie where they're supposed to be getting up there in years.

Hmm a mid 90ps cast. I don't know who I would have pickked myself. Would need to think about it. Just got out of work so blanking on names.

thecolorsblend wrote:If you hadn't said it, I would've had to.

You know I don't let much slip by....

On the one hand, she's an interesting choice for Lois in a Reeve Superman Returns movie. But on the other hand, seriously, would she have been any worse than Bosworth? I think not.

Talia Shire and Kate "SixHead" Bosworth are so far apart in talent, it's like comparing apples and 3/4" torque wrenches.

The only deal with your casting bit is that you would've needed to do this film by around 1994 as Reeve had his accident in 1995 or so. Plus, even though the cast should be a little ripe, too far along in the late 90's would've made some of them a bit too old even for a movie where they're supposed to be getting up there in years.

Hence the mid-90's comment.

But besides Reeve and Hackman, who would have been "too old" for that particular story?

thecolorsblend wrote:The only deal with your casting bit is that you would've needed to do this film by around 1994 as Reeve had his accident in 1995 or so. Plus, even though the cast should be a little ripe, too far along in the late 90's would've made some of them a bit too old even for a movie where they're supposed to be getting up there in years.

Apologist Puncher wrote:Hence the mid-90's comment.

Maybe it's splitting hairs then but Titanic came out in '97.

Apologist Puncher wrote:But besides Reeve and Hackman, who would have been "too old" for that particular story?

For an early/mid 90's version? None of them. In my perfect la-la world, I'd have brought back all the original cast, including Cooper. Donner too, if he would consider it. Take out the bastard kid and return to Krypton angles, and I'd say this hypothetical movie would've been a pretty good send off to the Donnerverse.

thecolorsblend wrote:Maybe it's splitting hairs then but Titanic came out in '97.

Ok.

'Tombstone' (1993)

'The Phantom' (1996)

Hell, 'Back To The Future' (1985)

He was acting before 1997, is my point. And he would have been a decent Richard White.

For an early/mid 90's version? None of them. In my perfect la-la world, I'd have brought back all the original cast, including Cooper. Donner too, if he would consider it. Take out the bastard kid and return to Krypton angles, and I'd say this hypothetical movie would've been a pretty good send off to the Donnerverse.

Watch Cooper in 'Superman IV' and actually witness someone too old for a role. As much as I love ol' Jackie, he wouldn't have been right in the mid-90's.

And Kidder was in no shape to be in a Superman film at this point either:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margot_Kidder#Personal_life

Kidder was involved in a serious car crash in 1990, after which she was unable to work for two years, causing her serious financial problems.

Kidder has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which led to a widely-publicized manic episode in 1996; she was found cowering naked in undergrowth by Los Angeles police in a distressed state and the caps on her teeth having fallen out, and was later placed in psychiatric care.

I've been having this thought for quite some time even after SR was release to the public and since the film had always been declared as a semi sequel as in taking place after the events of "Superman II" pacifically the direction of the film didn't feel like it was an aftermath of the first two "Superman" films but more likely an alternate rehash of the first one. It's almost as if Bryan Singer couldn't decide to do either a sequel or a reboot and thought it's best to do it both ways considering that it's almost 20 years since the last "Superman" film ("Superman IV: The Quest for Peace") came before SR did and as a result it just proves for the first time and then on that REQUELS never work out.

So makes you wonder how would SR really work out if it were really an official sequel? Well, for starters it should have turn out what Richard Donner would have done if he had ever directed a third installment to the series or just do what was originally planned for "Superman III" back in the day or better yet... Let this film be the answer to "Superman III" but done right this time. Another thing what should have been done was hire other/better actors/actresses rather than the ones that were hired aleast actors/actresses that can mirror the recent actors who play the characters from the recent films accordingly especially Supes himself. Next, the film should maintain the look, feel & sound from the recent films since this is suppose to place after the first two. And finally, have a new villain introduce although bringing Lex back into the mix is no big deal as long he serves some form of purpose and be put aside like he was in "Superman II". I assume Brainiac would have been the obvious choice!

And there you have it, all the requirements that should have been done if Bryan Singer or the WB studio really wanted to make a "Superman" film that continuates from the first two films.

What do you guys think?

There's way too much wrong with Singerman to ever hope to "fix". But one thing Singer could've done to make it slightly more convincing would be to a hire actors in their late 30's for the leads, a Jimmy in his early 30's, a Perry in his late 60's, a Lex in his late 50's, etc. This is obviously a sequel of some kind so it's hard to buy into the idea that a 24 or 25'ish character has this huge, extensive history.

I believe SUPERMAN RETURNS would have only worked with an established cast and universe to back it up. It's not the kind of story you use as the debut film for a new Superman and cast. That's asking audiences too much, you need to work hard to earn that kind of boldness and leeway from audiences. If this had actually been a Christopher Reeve film with a few changes here and there (PACING!!!!!! IT NEEDED PACING FOR GODS SAKE!), when made within that context it might have worked out much better.

Basically, it's the worst story to use to debut a new actor and cast. As much as Singer tried making this film a semi-sequel to the first two Reeve films, he and cast had not earned it.

I'm going to combine this with another thread I started with a SIMILAR premise.

RE: casting

I would have kept Margot Kidder, that is if she didn't abuse herself so much during the 80s and 90s. What a shame, she was fine in the 70s. In reality it wouldn't be possible to bring her back during the early 1990s because of her troubles, but it would have been a great loss because she and Reeve had fantastic chemistry. With the romance story in SR being a pivotal part, it would have been a big distraction to cast someone else in the role.

But whatever, if the role had to be recast, I can look no further than Dana Delany. Not only did she make a great Lois for the TAS series, not only is she one of the finest looking women in Hollywood, but she would have been at the perfect age for Lois in the Donnerverse timeframe. That's a Lois Lane we SHOULD have seen in live action.

I so did like her in tas show. An I agree she would have been a great choice for lois in the 90s/now range. And she is very lovely looking too.

James Stocks wrote:RE: casting

I would have kept Margot Kidder, that is if she didn't abuse herself so much during the 80s and 90s. What a shame, she was fine in the 70s. In reality it wouldn't be possible to bring her back during the early 1990s because of her troubles, but it would have been a great loss because she and Reeve had fantastic chemistry. With the romance story in SR being a pivotal part, it would have been a big distraction to cast someone else in the role.

But whatever, if the role had to be recast, I can look no further than Dana Delany. Not only did she make a great Lois for the TAS series, not only is she one of the finest looking women in Hollywood, but she would have been at the perfect age for Lois in the Donnerverse timeframe. That's a Lois Lane we SHOULD have seen in live action.

Around early '93, word 'round the water cooler had it that WB, finally back in control of the Superman movie rights, had some kind of ambition to bring Reeve back... maybe.





Sounds like if Reeve hadn't come back, it would've been more his call than WB's preference. Obviously we all know this didn't exactly pan out but it says something that WB was serious enough about the matter to hire no less than Cary Bates himself to write a script. Singerman 2- Bartender of Pleather never made it this far. Not even close.

And just think if we'd actually gotten this film! But my understanding was that Gerard Christopher was being groomed for that role. Reeve I believe is actually somewhat of a surprise, to me anyway. Where did you find that article anyway?

non_amos wrote:And just think if we'd actually gotten this film! But my understanding was that Gerard Christopher was being groomed for that role. Reeve I believe is actually somewhat of a surprise, to me anyway. Where did you find that article anyway?

Gerard Christopher was being groomed when the Superboy show was going on. The stuff in that article was after WB had reacquired the Superman movie rights.

That was in the Wizard Superman special tribute issue that came out just at the beginning of Reign of the Supermen. Even now, it's a pretty comprehensive history of Superman. Whatever you may think of Wizard, they at least took care of business with that tribute issue.

Interesting bit. I believe what might have really convinced Reeve to return is if Donner was hired. He was in a very good relationship with WB making hits for them throughout the 80s and 90s, so I have no doubt Donner might have been approached to do SUPERMAN V but likely turned it down just as he did for SUPERMAN IV when Reeve approached him and Mankiewicz. With Reeve not interested in returning I guess WB decided to settle with a TV series before moving on with a film, giving it the necessary distance from the last one.

Now, was the idea of an film adaptation of LOIS & CLARK ever thrown around after the series was finished?

James Stocks wrote:Interesting bit. I believe what might have really convinced Reeve to return is if Donner was hired. He was in a very good relationship with WB making hits for them throughout the 80s and 90s, so I have no doubt Donner might have been approached to do SUPERMAN V but likely turned it down just as he did for SUPERMAN IV when Reeve approached him and Mankiewicz. With Reeve not interested in returning I guess WB decided to settle with a TV series before moving on with a film, giving it the necessary distance from the last one.

Believe it or not, the next part of that article make it plain that L&C was being developed in tandem with that Reeve movie that ended up never happening. I was excited at the time because I figured if the TV show didn't turn out so well, maybe the movie would. But either way I would've been covered.

Of course, having a good TV show didn't soften the impact of Singerman one bit years down the line so maybe my optimism was misplaced.

Colors that is some pretty cool info there. I never knew even back then a film was on wb radar. Always thought it was in developmental hell to we got sr crap. And if I recall didn't gerard also test foor lois and clark but was passed when learned he was on superboy?