Man of Steel II- Sequel Watch (was 'What Do You Want In The Next Superman Installment? (MOS spoilers)')

Whatever happens, WB will be pushing for this more than they have for any other DC property. Frankly, I think they're better off putting JUSTICE LEAGUE on hold and letting Superman breathe for one more film. It just feels wrong to throw them altogether after only just introducing Superman and that all the others don't seem to have much of a presence in this new rebooted universe so far.

Villain wise? I say either Brainiac or Parasite. No doubt Luthor will play some role down the line, but I rather he stay by the sidelines instead of being the main baddie.

One main theme of MOS was fear of rejection. It culminated with acceptance. To take that to the next level, I think logically you'd want to address the theme of integration. Superman is on the scene, he has a secret identity but he struggles with balancing Superman's duties with Clark's professional and private lives. It's one thing for the world to accept Superman. It's something else to make it all work afterward.

Which villain best embodies that theme? Nobody wants to hear it but honestly I think Lex Luthor is the key. He operates publicly as a good guy but he has a secret identity of his own in a way. Some there's a sense where he's Superman's opposite number with respect to the theme of integration. To fulfill the action quotient, you could set it up that Lex basically creates Bizarro. I'm not much for turning Lexcorp into a supervillain factory but there's precedent for Lex to create Bizarro.

David Goyer wrote:In our minds there are people in Smallville who know Superman’s secret as well [as Lois], Pete Ross seems to know, there’s probably a couple dozen people who know and we thought it would be interesting if they’re protective of him.

We were able to sidestep the issue of the ludicrous glasses disguise in this film but going forwards, we’re going to find ourselves in a sticky wicket. Zack and I have definitely talked about “Okay, hmm, this will be interesting.” Clearly Perry White and Steve Lombard see Lois kissing Superman at the end of the film. Perry’s not an idiot. Moving forward, he’s probably going to say to Lois “What’s up with that?” We’re definitely going to have to go through some story gymnastics.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/14/david-goyer-tells-me-about-his-plans-for-and-problems-with-the-man-of-steel-sequel

I obviously loved MOS but all of the above goes back to my basic problem with realism in DC movies, Superman in particular. In a strictly realistic world, the glasses thing is a challenge. I happen to think glasses are a better disguise than people give credit for because it really is amazing how much differently someone can look with their hair combed differently and the right kind of glasses. But still, sooner or later someone would see through the disguise in a realistic setting. MOS isn't as realistic as the Nolan stuff (and even those movies pushed the secret identity aspect to the absolute breaking point of credibility) but it does have one foot solidly planted in that world.

None of this is an issue with the science-fairy tale world of the Silver Age though. The story can fuction as you want it to. You have the opposite storytelling problem with that in that you have to figure out a way to introduce Superman into such a world but once you crack that, everything else falls into place.

Anyway...

Conspiracy theories abound (aided and abetted by the director himself) that Snyder campaigned for the trunks in MOS. We all know what happened though. Gotta wonder if he'll be more successful for MOS II (or whatever the title ends up being). After all, MOS is shaping up to be a hit. Nolan was treated like royalty after Batman Begins so why should things be different for Snyder?

Trunks or no trunks, the outfit itself though interests me. Usually for sequels, costumer designers take the opportunity to tweak things. That alone could result in slightly different shades of red and blue, minor alterations to the texture of the suit, the gauntlets/wrist flair or whatever else. And this is not to speak of toy and video game companies getting involved who all something new to sell to consumers. I'm not talking about a wholesale redesign or reincorporation of the trunks here (not necessarily anyway) so much as changes along the lines of the differences in Tobey Maguire's outfit in Spider-Man vs. what he wore in Spider-Man 2.

I could see them veering closer to the traditional classic suit while still keeping elements from the suit in MOS. I think we'll definitely see a change of sorts.

thecolorsblend wrote:One main theme of MOS was fear of rejection. It culminated with acceptance. To take that to the next level, I think logically you'd want to address the theme of integration. Superman is on the scene, he has a secret identity but he struggles with balancing Superman's duties with Clark's professional and private lives. It's one thing for the world to accept Superman. It's something else to make it all work afterward.

Which villain best embodies that theme? Nobody wants to hear it but honestly I think Lex Luthor is the key. He operates publicly as a good guy but he has a secret identity of his own in a way. Some there's a sense where he's Superman's opposite number with respect to the theme of integration. To fulfill the action quotient, you could set it up that Lex basically creates Bizarro. I'm not much for turning Lexcorp into a supervillain factory but there's precedent for Lex to create Bizarro.

This is the line of thinking I've been leaning towards. Ya know, I've said how MOS had elements of Smallville in it & in hindsight it's obvious although there were obvious differences as well. But one thing I wondered about was Lex. On SV he & Clark had a friendship that started with him hitting Clark on the bridge at 60 MPH. In MOS all we get are 'Easter eggs'. I assumed that in MOS we'd have a Lex who had no history with Clark whatsoever. However, after seeing the film, you really don't know if they did or not. You might say it's ambiguous. In the film we got bits & pieces of SV. Pete Ross was white again although red-headed but Lana was still a brunette who could've passed for a young Kristen Kreuk. They also mentioned 'the Fordham boy' which is an obvious reference to Whitney. And remember that building that Clark was being bullied in front of? It had the name 'Sullivan' on it which alludes to the existence of Chloe although she's not mentioned in the film but you can safely assume she exists in the MOS universe. Ditto for Lex. For all we know, in this universe Clark & Lex may have had a friendship, we really don't know. The way the film is set up it's kinda left to the viewer to decide.

So..........this is a long way of saying how they might be setting Lex up. He's not gonna be campy Lex that's for certain. Since you mention Bizarro I recall how in the John Byrne reboot he was a direct result of Luthor trying to clone Superman if I'm not mistaken. But then we see the plot for Superman IV which appears that they tried to use this same idea but with disastrous results. But didn't we also see with the Byrne reboot that Lex was also responsible for Metallo?

Here's where I'm going with this. Just like the original idea in Singerman Peeps, Lex tries to convince the public of the alien threat in Superman but in this case, he's not an ex-con winning over the public but instead a very successful & influential businessman/inventor/scientist. However, Superman is winning over the public himself so Lex has to take matters into his own hands. Perhaps he starts out with the creation of Metallo but I don't know how they're gonna explain that when they haven't even introduced Kryptonite yet but maybe it'll all tie together. Let's say though that ultimately Superman trumps that so Lex goes to 'Plan B' & somehow succeeds in cloning Superman but not exactly like he would've like to have done. An experiment gone awry kinda like the Lex clones on SV. But think about this. Both Metallo & Bizarro would give Superman a run for his money. But let's also say that both attempts fail so then Lex takes matters into his own hands. He somehow comes up with the tech for the GREEN & PURPLE BATTLESUIT! Which I feel is a version we've wanted anyway & this way we'd get it. So that's my proposal.

The problem though is if they decide to use Brainiac. He'd be the heavy hitter & we don't want too many villains or it becomes Spiderman 3. So what do you do? Use Brainic as a cliffhanger for MOS 3? Possibly offering his services since Luthor failed? Anyway these are some ideas & I'd be happy if Snyder & company would maybe surf the Net & actually read some of these ideas.

I'm wondering what happens to Zod's body and all the alien tech. I could see if Lex got a hold of Zod's body somehow and trying to clone him.

non_amos wrote:Ditto for Lex. For all we know, in this universe Clark & Lex may have had a friendship, we really don't know. The way the film is set up it's kinda left to the viewer to decide.

When I was a kid, the Clark/Lex friendship stuff bugged me and I was happy John Byrne deleted it from continuity but as I get older, I realize now the value it had both in their relationship and in Superboy's character development. It's one of the few things that showed that Superboy had feat of clay which Superman maybe didn't. If this were to be reinstated for the DC Cinematic Universe, I'd be happy.

non_amos wrote:But didn't we also see with the Byrne reboot that Lex was also responsible for Metallo?

Nah, the Post-Crisis Metallo's origin isn't radically different from his Pre-Crisis origin, except that Emmet Vale, his creator, is a paranoid, anti-alien zealot and built Metallo as a weapon to use against Superman. This has obvious thematic resonance with MOS and future plot lines so this might be a good thing to adapt into a movie.

non_amos wrote:Here's where I'm going with this. Just like the original idea in Singerman Peeps, Lex tries to convince the public of the alien threat in Superman but in this case, he's not an ex-con winning over the public but instead a very successful & influential businessman/inventor/scientist. However, Superman is winning over the public himself so Lex has to take matters into his own hands.

I like that because it doesn't put Superman on the wrong side of public opinion. I have a lot of problems with The Dark Knight but one thing that plays for me is that the first couple of minutes establish (A) that Batman has been quite busy since credits rolled in Batman Begins (B) the cops have an informal policy of looking the other way when Batman does his thing and (C) Batman is succeeding. I'd like to see that type of thing applied to Superman where he has crooks in Metropolis running scared while Luthor shouts into a vacuum about alien menaces and the public ignores him.

non_amos wrote:The problem though is if they decide to use Brainiac. He'd be the heavy hitter & we don't want too many villains or it becomes Spiderman 3. So what do you do? Use Brainic as a cliffhanger for MOS 3? Possibly offering his services since Luthor failed? Anyway these are some ideas & I'd be happy if Snyder & company would maybe suft the Net & actually read some of these ideas.

To me, Brainiac might hit upon a lot of the same themes that Zod did (paranoia, distrust of aliens, etc). I'd love to see Brainiac in a movie but it feels like a film with him in it could touch on at least some of the same stuff as MOS. I'm not saying a theme for MOS II must be "integration" but to me it seems like the next logical step and characters like Luthor, Metallo and Bizarro could better further that theme than another alien invasion. Hollywood has a boner for trilogies so my guess is that elements of MOS will be revisited for MOS III anyway, which could be a better vehicle for Brainiac.

the colorsblend wrote:

To me, Brainiac might hit upon a lot of the same themes that Zod did (paranoia, distrust of aliens, etc). I'd love to see Brainiac in a movie but it feels like a film with him in it could touch on at least some of the same stuff as MOS. I'm not saying a theme for MOS II must be "integration" but to me it seems like the next logical step and characters like Luthor, Metallo and Bizarro could better further that theme than another alien invasion. Hollywood has a boner for trilogies so my guess is that elements of MOS will be revisited for MOS III anyway, which could be a better vehicle for Brainiac.

The alien thing does raise some concerns. For MOS I felt like it actually made sense & let's face it, the Reeve films never really took this angle seriously. Case in point. One of the points Goyer made was that if it were revealed that there was an alien among us then it'd be the biggest story of the century. This fact was also played out in the comments of Perry to Lois in the film itself. Excellent point. But in STM Superman reveals to Lois that he's really from a planet in another galaxy & her response was, "Is that Krypton with a C-R-I or with a K-R-Y?" Huh?! That still makes little sense when you think about what Superman was revealing to her. And then how the public just accepts him at face value? Unbelievable! So I think MOS actually approaches the idea with some common sense.

However, it probably ain't a good idea to have an alien threat in every film. We already know that Justice League is to have Darkseid. But if every Superman film is the same thing it might get real old, real quick. Someone might ask, why can't we just get a film that's 'grounded' so to speak. What I mean is, Superman fighting 'Earth villains'. That's why Luthor, Metallo & Bizarro would work so well, at least the post-Crisis Bizarro anyway. Another 'grounded' threat would be Parasite. As a matter of fact one of the guys I saw MOS with said he'd like to see Parasite in the sequel draining Superman's powers. Well, to that I say, why not?

Another thing. I don't think it's necessary to completely destroy Metropolis in every film. Yeah, this first film even surpassed Avengers in that regard & maybe was justified but if they do it in every film, then just how much stress can this city take? Maybe we could have a film where Superman actually prevents so much destruction?

This just in. I found this on my Facebook notifications. It seems that the names of Bizarro and Doomsday are being thrown about as possible villains even by Zack Snyder, Amy Adams and Henry Cavill! Henry personally wants Doomsday! It probably would be epic & if done like the Hulk in Avengers it really would be epic. If they went with Doomsday though I don't want THE DEATH OF SUPERMAN. Sure, that was a great storyline in the comics but you know and I know that it was a recurring theme in the various aborted Superman projects. Besides, now that Supes is revived let's not kill him off, 'K?!

Now if you wanna do something like they did in Infinite Crisis, I didn't read the entire thing but there was a situation where Superman & Earth-2 Superman had switched minds/bodies or something & then Earth-2 Supes was reliving 'the death of Superman'. However, since his personality was so 'rough & tough', instead of dying in Lois' arms, he got up & 'shrugged it off'. Actually I liked that quality. Now.....if you want to explore that for the sequel then fine, maybe. Just don't kill Superman off. I think we've had enough of that to last a lifetime.

You beat me to it but I pretty much agree across the board. I guess I can accept Doomsday as a bruiser that Superman has to put down who isn't Mongul. It opens up a lot of big action scenes without inserting a redundant villain. I guess I'm okay with it.

Seems likely Lex is going to have some kind of role in MOS II. Candidates? I've always thought Billy Zane would make a great Luthor.

I like Jon Hamm...if he plays Luthor seriously 

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f26c4046b0/lex-luthor-bailout-with-jon-hamm

thecolorsblend wrote:Seems likely Lex is going to have some kind of role in MOS II. Candidates? I've always thought Billy Zane would make a great Luthor.

I've seen the name of Billy Zane pop up over the years on various forums or comments about being Luthor. Might be a good choice, I don't know. But ain't he the same dude who was after Leonardo DiCaprio in TITANIC only he had hair?

One name that comes to mind is Bruce Willis. He went to shaving his head anyway & he'd also add Star power to MOS2. But I'd even welcome Michael Rosenbaum in the role. Beyond that I'll have to put my thinking cap on.

superman1938 wrote:I like Jon Hamm...if he plays Luthor seriously 

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f26c4046b0/lex-luthor-bailout-with-jon-hamm

What I find ironic here is that Hamm's name was actually being considered for the role of Superman himself albeit a slightly older Superman. Now he's making jokes about Superman? I don't get it. I know he's a comedian/actor or whatever but it almost looks like a screen test for the role of Luthor but then again he pokes fun so I dunno. Better that we got Cavill anyway for Supes. Who knows? Maybe he regrets missing out on a piece of the pie?

George Clooney for Lex Luthor.  That is if he wants to get back into the genre after B&R