Screwing Up Captain America...

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Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Apologist Puncher on Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:56 am

That old "reliable" website comicbookmovienews has an article detailing excerpts from EW magazine. And it has some RIDICULOUS things in it:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/LetsCutTheBS/news/?a=24545

During a scene using wires and a high powered fan Evans is dropped onto a Black train car, after Joe Johnston yells 'Cut' Evans winced with a little bit of pain stating:

“There was a lot of business getting choked down there,” I almost fell off the train! That would have been a disaster,” says Evans. “Did everything else look good?”

Even with the stunt work it seems that Chris Evans is wanting perfection, which is exactly what we want from the lead star of the most important super hero film made this generation. Captain America will set up a total of 9 movies (Captain America Trilogy, Avengers Trilogy, and 3 more Marvel movies with at least cameos of Captain America)staring Chris Evans as Captain America. Thank god Chris is self conscious enough to want to get it right.

Kevein Feige even chimed in stating:

Captain America is “the last jewel in the Marvel crown that hasn't gotten its own movie franchise.”

Kevin went on to explain why Marvel ultimately went with Chris Evans as Captain America:

“We wanted an American.”

Which is a pretty important requirement for an actor to fulfill while taking the role of Captain America.

Still, director Joe Johnston states:

“I never wanted to make this movie into something of a flag-waver. We were very careful about that when we were developing the screenplay.” It's “about international cooperation.”

Of course Captain America is going to set up the most important Marvel Team Up movie of all time, The Avengers.

At first Evans did not want the role at all. In fact he turned it down 3 times before finally accepting it. Chris goes on to say:

“I've made some spotty films in the past, and I didn't want another one on this scale, “I remember telling a buddy of mine, ‘If the movie bombs, I’m f---ed. If the movie hits, I’m f---ed!’
“I was just scared,” Chris says. “I realized my whole decision-making process was fear-based, and you never want to make a decision out of fear. And so one weekend, I just said, ‘F---it. Let’s do it.’ ”

What's director Joe Johnston's take on Chris Evans:

“He has really brought a whole different level to the character that I didn't know existed—more real, more complicated, more vulnerable.”

Chris Evans now has no regrets taking on the iconic role:

“When I first put on the suit, I was absolutely terrified. But once I started working, I could just see this was going to be a good experience. Then I started going, ‘Wow. This is really cool,’ ” he says. “I can't believe I was almost too chicken to play Captain America.”

“I never wanted to make this movie into something of a flag-waver. We were very careful about that when we were developing the screenplay.” It's “about international cooperation.”

A film titled CAPTAIN AMERICA is about "international cooperation"??? Seriously, this anti-USA stance by Hollyweird is going too far. That lame-ass'ed GI Joe movie was one thing. That movie sucked. But to do it AGAIN in Captain America?

Losing interest by the day.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Guest on Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:52 am

Apologist Puncher wrote:“I never wanted to make this movie into something of a flag-waver. We were very careful about that when we were developing the screenplay.” It's “about international cooperation.”

A film titled CAPTAIN AMERICA is about "international cooperation"??? Seriously, this anti-USA stance by Hollyweird is going too far. That lame-ass'ed GI Joe movie was one thing. That movie sucked. But to do it AGAIN in Captain America?

Losing interest by the day.
I originally had another of my trademark longwinded blowhard posts set up and ready to go... but it's far more efficient to just say "Afrigginmen, you said it!" I don't get it either.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  webhead2006 on Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:27 am

Joe was probably trying to make it sound less america is great the rest of the world sucks. Since most counties don't really like the us. So trying to be less one thing and more open to the world views could be helpful. I know folks were complaining about comments joe said before like this. But if in the end if the films ends up good and gets the essence of the characters right. It shouldn't be bad.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Guest on Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:41 pm

webhead2006 wrote:Joe was probably trying to make it sound less america is great the rest of the world sucks. Since most counties don't really like the us. So trying to be less one thing and more open to the world views could be helpful. I know folks were complaining about comments joe said before like this. But if in the end if the films ends up good and gets the essence of the characters right. It shouldn't be bad.
I don't buy that. Never have.

But even if it is true, why doesn't anyone ever argue that we need a more international-friendly James Bond? Or Sherlock Holmes? Or Harry Potter? Because it would be friggin idiotic to say that, that's why. But somehow, only when it's the US do we need to make things "more international". Well, ya know what? Superman is an American icon. Captain America, if the name wasn't enough to give it away, is an American icon. Etc.

And something else? Making these sorts of characters "international" has a pretty lousy track record. In Singerman, we got "truth, justice, all that stuff". The BEST you can say about Singerman is that it was a major disappointment financially. Meanwhile, Spider-Man 3 had a couple of unapologetically American shots and that movie cleaned the hell up at the box office. Frankly, international audiences aren't as sensitive to that bullshit as the handwringing, politically correct establishment would have us believe.

All that and "Captain America" is a helluva lot more catchy than "Captain United Nations".

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  webhead2006 on Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:55 pm

oh i know that is a bs type of answer but hey everything is so PC these days.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Guest on Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:54 pm

webhead2006 wrote:oh i know that is a bs type of answer but hey everything is so PC these days.
All the more reason to buck up against it when you can. PC thinking is mind control. When "the rest of the world" invents an Internet, an automobile, an airplane, a shuttle that lands men on the moon or anything other than drugs, porn or huts made of human waste, I'll start caring what they think. Until then, they should have a warm glass of STFU and let the adults (ie, the Westerners in general and the Americans in particular) do the talking.


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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  webhead2006 on Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:10 pm

oh it totally sucks how the world is about things that can or might piss off other people. OR for example how our censoring practices on tv shows/films are compared to others. Though all i hope for in the end is the characters written correctly and the essence and all that is honnoring the comics.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Apologist Puncher on Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:44 pm

webhead2006 wrote:Joe was probably trying to make it sound less america is great the rest of the world sucks. Since most counties don't really like the us. So trying to be less one thing and more open to the world views could be helpful. I know folks were complaining about comments joe said before like this. But if in the end if the films ends up good and gets the essence of the characters right. It shouldn't be bad.

Well, let's ALL forget who was THE difference in WWII. You know, the period Captain America is set in? Fighting in multiple fronts, storming Normandy, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

WE need to stop cow-towing to the "international community". A foreign policy of appeasement is bullshit, and not what America is all about.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Guest on Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:30 am

Apologist Puncher wrote:
webhead2006 wrote:Joe was probably trying to make it sound less america is great the rest of the world sucks. Since most counties don't really like the us. So trying to be less one thing and more open to the world views could be helpful. I know folks were complaining about comments joe said before like this. But if in the end if the films ends up good and gets the essence of the characters right. It shouldn't be bad.

Well, let's ALL forget who was THE difference in WWII. You know, the period Captain America is set in? Fighting in multiple fronts, storming Normandy, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

WE need to stop cow-towing to the "international community". A foreign policy of appeasement is bullshit, and not what America is all about.
Well, not to split hairs with you but (with the admission that I'm hardly an expert) my reading of WW2 is that it was about as much a team effort as it possibly could've been. The Americans were the deciding influence in several key theaters (without which those territories would be speaking German today) and turned the tide right when things looked their worst for the rest of Europe... but the Allies absolutely played their part.

You're not wrong and I'm not disagreeing with you, this is just one of the few times I've seen the Europeans care about something other than smack, whores and socialized medicine. It's a nuance, yeah, but I felt like it's a worthy one.

As it goes for Captain America, underplaying the involvement of the US in WfuckingW2 of all things to make nice with the Euros is just insane. INSANE. Hell, I wouldn't say that even if we were talking about a period JSA movie set on Earth 2 (ie, less science, more magic) but Captain AMERICA?! Are you KIDDING me?!

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  webhead2006 on Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:03 am

Well hopefully things are not screwed uuup once the film is out and they treat what we in the us did and us in general well in the film. I am not going to complain much now. Cause for all we know things might not be screwed. Joe could be saying these things to help ease/ give the film a better view for international releases. Cause I am sure marvel wants the film to do well overseas. Only time will tell.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Apologist Puncher on Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:10 pm

thec0l0rsblend wrote:Well, not to split hairs with you but (with the admission that I'm hardly an expert) my reading of WW2 is that it was about as much a team effort as it possibly could've been. The Americans were the deciding influence in several key theaters (without which those territories would be speaking German today) and turned the tide right when things looked their worst for the rest of Europe... but the Allies absolutely played their part.

Like I said, the US was THE difference maker.

Germany had already established a hold in most of Europe. France was theirs, Italy was on their side, Russia was surrounded, and England was getting themselves bombed back into the Stone-Age. Once WE "joined-up", things changed DRAMATICALLY. We had troops fighting all over the world. And not just fighting. Winning.

The end result was DEFINITELY a "team effort". But if not for us, Germany would be a HELL OF A LOT BIGGER right now.

thec0l0rsblend wrote:You're not wrong and I'm not disagreeing with you, this is just one of the few times I've seen the Europeans care about something other than smack, whores and socialized medicine. It's a nuance, yeah, but I felt like it's a worthy one.

They held Germany off long enough for us to come and put a smack-down on them. True.

thec0l0rsblend wrote:As it goes for Captain America, underplaying the involvement of the US in WfuckingW2 of all things to make nice with the Euros is just insane. INSANE. Hell, I wouldn't say that even if we were talking about a period JSA movie set on Earth 2 (ie, less science, more magic) but Captain AMERICA?! Are you KIDDING me?!

It blows my mind to think about HollyWeird. They ACTUALLY believe they speak for "the majority".

Come Tuesday, they are going to find out how WRONG they really are...

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:05 am

Apologist Puncher wrote:Come Tuesday, they are going to find out how WRONG they really are...
Yes. They are. And I can't freaking WAIT.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  thecolorsblend on Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:45 am

Seems this is the best place for this.

Ed Brubaker via facebook wrote:Captain America movie was pretty much perfect. Ballsy, brave, fun as he'll. And Chris Evans is Steve Rogers thru and thru.
URL- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ed-Brubaker/20928103699

Brubaker's cred with Captain America should be pretty much beyond reproach. If he says the movie is perfect... well, for now anyway, who am I to argue?

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  non_amos on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:51 am

I might as well post this here. Not because I feel this way but I found this 'review', if you can call it that, from a music site that I get e-mail from. Specific 'nuggets' will be in bold. Behold:

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2011/07/captain-america-review.html?utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Paste_Lifeline%2007-26-11_7_26_111

By Jonathan Hickman
Captain America:
The First Avenger review

Published at 1:58 PM on July 24, 2011

Captain America: The First Avenger is the kind of awkward failure that was hinted at already this year with Marvel Comics’ Thor and nearly spelled disaster with DC Comics’ Green Lantern. While not a terrible film, Captain America lacks the edge necessary to truly capture viewers’ imagination.

The classic comic book hero Captain America (or “Cap” as he’s often called), started back in 1941, even before Pearl Harbor. Billed as a patriotic superhero, the character was a reaction to the events in Europe during World War II. After a popular run in which the book sold as many as one-million copies per month and was revived the first time during the immediate post-WWII era, Captain America was eventually brought back by Stan Lee in the 1960s in an issue of the Marvel comic The Avengers.

Cap’s origin story in the comics is far more interesting than the one presented in this big- budget extravaganza. Steve Rogers (Chris Evans), a sensitive art student and a puny physical specimen, desperately wants to join the military in hopes of fighting Hitler. Conceived in the months prior to Pearl Harbor, Rogers becomes Captain America and later goes on to combat the Nazis, primarily in the form of the evil twisted scientist Johann Schmidt, later dubbed the Red Skull.

The movie’s take on Rogers’ story fails to spend enough time telling us who he is. Played by the beefy Chris Evans, the filmmakers do make a smart decision to have Evans play Rogers both before and after his amazing transformation into Captain America. Through the use of seamless computer animation, Evans is shortened and slimmed down from hunk to 90-pound weakling. The effect is striking.

The first third of the film shows great promise, although I’d have liked to have learned more about who Rogers is, what happened to his parents (the brief explanation isn’t enough), and a little more about his artistic side. When the story moves from character development to action, though, it loses focus and credibility. Little effort is made to tighten the villain, the Red Skull (a menacing Hugo Weaving), and make him anything more than just a one-note baddie. Missing is any appreciation of Skull’s motivations and inner torment. He’s just a vicious megalomaniac with unique facial deformities. Telling his origin story with a little more definition may have made us care and even fear the guy. Compared to Sebastian Shaw in this summer’s X-Men: First Class (Kevin Bacon perfect for the role, and the script kept us guessing as to what he would do next), the Red Skull just seems dim-witted.

Captain America: The First Avenger is a bigger film than it should have been. While the period setting is the epic WWII environment, the fictitious events depicted involve one rogue Nazi hell-bent on world domination. The movie clearly wants to set-up the bigger _Avengers _film that is coming next year. And to that end, the technology employed by the Red Skull is subtly credited to the realm belonging to Thor. But since that link is kept so cloaked, some viewers will find Skull’s various machinations and hoards of faceless, futuristic, ray gun wielding henchman unbelievable. Early in the movie, the Skull acquires a mystic power source and later uses it to run his industries and weaponry. But the time compression of the script makes the development of Skull’s operations way too fast. He has not one but many enormous plants armed with guns and tanks that would rival anything created today. It’s all a little too much. By the time the action-packed conclusion comes round, the story has gone so far off the rails that viewers might have a hard time engaging.

And sadly, the action sequences aren’t really of note, especially given all the other movies that have done this sort of thing before. It’s almost as if the script runs out of ideas and fills in the gaps with one battle after the next, trading intelligence and strategy for full-frontal attacks. This is where sophisticated audiences will check out, and even groan a bit. The Red Skull’s weapons are so powerful that anything else looks like a child’s toy. And yet, over and over again, he’s thwarted by what appears to be a small group of machine-gun-toting GIs. Had Skull had a little more control of his own equipment, the whole film would have had a harder, more credible edge. Instead, director Joe Johnston, who made the better and more focused “The Rocketeer,” seems intent on impressing us with larger and larger sets, and on populating the screen with armies foreign to any known battlefield let alone the product of the WWII period.

Captain America: The First Avenger is presented in the ubiquitous 3D format, and that aspect of the film is worth talking about. Cap is armed with an indestructible shield and when he throws it at his opponents, it flies out into the audience. While this effect is solid and the images in the film are much brighter than other 3D offerings of late, it fails to save this weak Marvel comic book entry.


What, is this guy a fag or something? I mean, look at it. He basically wanted to 'get to know Steve Rogers', see his 'artistic side', meet his family, etc. But, according to this fairy, as soon as the film moves from 'character development' to 'mindless action', then you might as well write it off right then & there! I wonder what he thought of Singerman? I bet he liked that one because it probably 'fit' his criteria. Anyway, this guy called both Cap and Thor FAILURES! He called GL a failure too but you really can't say that about the other two films because they 'succeeded with the target audience' & apparently at the box office also. And don't get me wrong, I liked the new X-Men film too but notice how this guy considers that film like 'le creme de la creme' in comparison. But hey! At least the X-Men film 'fleshed out' the character development, including Kevin Bacon's character, but Hugo Weaving as the Red Skull OTOH was just a 'one-note baddie'. And the site itself only gives the film a 5.2 rating.

Someone remind this guy to eat crow when the final box office numbers are finally in! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Apologist Puncher on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:09 am


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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  thecolorsblend on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:12 am

Steve Rogers as a slightly introverted painter has precedent to spare in the comics...

BUT

... it is not now, never has been and never will be his defining characteristic. I'd say the painting thing is about as relevant to Captain America as the original/Pre-Crisis Fortress of Solitude was to Superman. Yeah, many stories touched upon both but you could remove both elements from both characters mythos and lose nothing in the bargain.

Was there room for Red Skull to be developed? Arguably. But Captain America (as a movie) is supposed to be Steve's story and it's supposed to be the final lead in to the Avengers. It had a lot of work to do and it pulled it off admirably.

The Red Skull can be brought back for a sequel. You can explore Hitler's role in fashioning the Red Skull into "the perfect Nazi" and so forth.

That fuckstick reviewer missed the point completely.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  webhead2006 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:34 am

Seesh

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Apologist Puncher on Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:55 pm

thecolorsblend wrote:Was there room for Red Skull to be developed? Arguably.

Actually, we learned EVERYTHING we needed to know about The Red Skull.

Nazi scientist with dreams of world-domination forces scientist to use an un-tested and not completed super-soldier serum on him, causing his face to "melt" off, making his head look like a "red skull". On top of that, it brought out his evil side even MORE, and gave him super strength. Since he was ALREADY The Red Skull at the beginning of the movie, what else did we need to learn?

Now if this insecure little bitch is demanding we learn everything about Johann Schmidt, that's something completely different.

And completely fucking stupid too.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  thecolorsblend on Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:02 am

Apologist Puncher wrote:Now if this insecure little bitch is demanding we learn everything about Johann Schmidt, that's something completely different.

And completely fucking stupid too.
I don't see the harm in more development for the guy. His origin story is kind of neat. I forget the issue but I read one once where Hitler is at a restaurant in Germany with some Nazi party officials and, bragging about how awesome he is, says he can make a Nazi true believer out of anybody. To illustrate his point, he gestures at one of the waiters in the joint, Schmidt, and says "even that guy. Take a look at him. I could make him into the PERFECT Nazi if I wanted to."

But when Schmidt walked by Hitler's table, Hitler FROZE THE HELL UP. Schmidt chilled even HITLER.

Bad motherfucker even before the serum...

EDIT- That's not saying he needs the extra screen time. I'm just saying there IS a story there. It's optional but it's fertile soil for a sequel (which I hope like hell we get with Joe Johnston directing again).

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Apologist Puncher on Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:11 am

thecolorsblend wrote:I don't see the harm in more development for the guy. His origin story is kind of neat. I forget the issue but I read one once where Hitler is at a restaurant in Germany with some Nazi party officials and, bragging about how awesome he is, says he can make a Nazi true believer out of anybody. To illustrate his point, he gestures at one of the waiters in the joint, Schmidt, and says "even that guy. Take a look at him. I could make him into the PERFECT Nazi if I wanted to."

But when Schmidt walked by Hitler's table, Hitler FROZE THE HELL UP. Schmidt chilled even HITLER.

Bad motherfucker even before the serum...

EDIT- That's not saying he needs the extra screen time. I'm just saying there IS a story there. It's optional but it's fertile soil for a sequel (which I hope like hell we get with Joe Johnston directing again).

If he was Johann Schmidt at the beginning of the movie, you'd have a point. But since he wasn't, and he wasn't too concerned with Captain America for much of the movie, I will again say we learned all we needed to about him.

If they wanted to expand on him in a sequel, where he has a personal vendetta against CA, then that's completely understandable.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  thecolorsblend on Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:30 am

Apologist Puncher wrote:If he was Johann Schmidt at the beginning of the movie, you'd have a point. But since he wasn't, and he wasn't too concerned with Captain America for much of the movie, I will again say we learned all we needed to about him.

If they wanted to expand on him in a sequel, where he has a personal vendetta against CA, then that's completely understandable.
Pretty much my point, yep.

See, this is the entire problem with a lot of critics nowadays. They completely ignore the intent of the script and instead focus on imaginary flaws.

And not even just critics, other people do the same thing. My friend's roommate was an Apologist until I came along and deprogrammed him. Now, he's pretty militantly anti-Singerman. But now? Now it's because of how crappy the Singerman bikini is. I mean, yeah, the costume is shit, I can't imagine ever arguing otherwise. But at the same time, the wetsuit is a snowflake in a blizzard of problems facing Singerman. I find his stalking, for example, a lot more bothersome than the stupid pleather. Of all the problems facing Singerman, and there are tons, the bikini probably isn't even in the top 5. But noooooo, the movie sucks ONLY because of The Pleather. Fucking idiot...

I better stop now, that guy irritates the hell out of me.

Anyway. Back to topic. Intent. So much of a filmmaker's intent gets lost or ignored anytime some jerkwit with Microsoft Word runs his mouth in some hackjob movie review. It's never about how well a filmmaker achieves his goals. Instead it's all about criticizing a movie because of what the reviewer THINKS should be there.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Apologist Puncher on Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:42 am

If 'Captain America' had bombed, you wouldn't have heard a negative word from this douche-tip. He WANTED it to fail because of his irrational hatred of Patriotic Americans, and America by extension.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  thecolorsblend on Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:54 am

Apologist Puncher wrote:If 'Captain America' had bombed, you wouldn't have heard a negative word from this douche-tip. He WANTED it to fail because of his irrational hatred of Patriotic Americans, and America by extension.
Speaking of which...

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/LetsCutTheBS/news/?a=24545
-- 10.29.2010

Kevin went on to explain why Marvel ultimately went with Chris Evans as Captain America:

"We wanted an American."
So far so good. But...

Still, director Joe Johnston states:

“I never wanted to make this movie into something of a flag-waver. We were very careful about that when we were developing the screenplay.” It's “about international cooperation.”
Okay, (A) that is a shit approach. Period, end of story. And I believe I'm already on the record in this very thread about that.

But (B) where the fuck is THAT in the movie?! Not that I'm complaining, mind you, but the final product is not only patriotic in the general sense but also pretty pro-American all around. Beyond even that, yeah, there are token (borderline half-hearted) efforts at the "international cooperation" angle...

...but that all gets somewhat drowned out by the villification of the Nazis. Again, that is not a criticism in my book. But it's also not exactly the impression you get from reading Johnston's production interviews.

I'm starting to think that Johnston was just giving BS soundbytes to the media to protect the movie from PC, hand-wringing, limp-wristed, anti-American yellow journalists. That's the only conclusion I can come to at this point because the movie is one Old Glory shot away from "flag-waving" (oh Heaven FORBID!!!).

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Apologist Puncher on Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:59 am

Yep, for pieces of shit like the "critic" in question.

He lost, the rest of the country WON.

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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

Post  Apologist Puncher on Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:46 pm

thecolorsblend wrote:Was there room for Red Skull to be developed? Arguably.

You know, I just re-watched 'X-Men: First Class', and I have to say that 'Captain America' showed much more of Red Skull's back-story than Shaw's in FC. Which showed NONE.

Seriously, when you watch it again, tell me I'm wrong. We got ZERO on Shaw. He was just evil to be evil. And not even consistent either! One minute he tells Emma Frost "We don't hurt our own kind", then the next he MURDERS one??


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Re: Screwing Up Captain America...

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