Batman Feature Film Annotations

James Stocks wrote:It's working for me. His note pages are set to public so everyone should be able to see it. I think you have to log in in order to see it. This is why I posted his whole thing here just in case because I know Facebook has this stupid policy that you can only see stuff on that site if you're registered.

James Stocks wrote:Okay I just found out. Only his BATMAN (1989) and BATMAN RETURNS notes are available in public, the other entries are set at custom. I assumed that all of his notes were available in public, so that was my mistake. Still, I made it available quoted so there you go. When he gets BATMAN & ROBIN done I'll do the same.

James Stocks wrote:

01:36:23 -- Okay, time to explain the big deleted subplot I've been referring to all this time. So here's what's been going on in the 40 minutes of deleted scenes: Bruce is trying to come to grips with the guilt of his actions as Batman. He refuses to kill Harvey in the opening action setpiece when he could've, but Harvey berates him for the hubris of declaring "Batman does not kill," when in this movie series, he very clearly does. Bruce's parents have been avenged, the Wayne Foundation gives millions to charity, the police handle most of the crime and are no longer corrupt, why is he still doing this? Bruce begins to believe that he is losing control of his sense of self. He no longer knows who he really is, Batman or Bruce Wayne? And these repressed memories and nightmares disturb him. He remembers falling into the cave, the bat. He remembers running from his parents' wake. But why was he running? And what does it have to do with his father's journal? Is Batman just Bruce's response to his fear? Does he only fight crime because he's still running from his pain? This is why he's seeing Chase, and the significance of his need for her dream-thingamajig. His duality here is meant to be mirrored by Two-Face, who also has several deleted scenes further explaining his rage at both Batman, his former ally in crimefighting who failed to save him, and Bruce Wayne, his old friend who seemingly abandoned him. Harvey's fall and Bruce's guilt over it further explains his reticence to kill Harvey, as well as his reluctance to take on another partner in Dick, despite his empathy with Dick's pain. Finally, the media begin a Daily Bugle style hate parade against Batman, blaming him for the Riddler and Two-Face's crime spree and declaring that supervillains would not come to Batman if he was not there for them to challenge (and given that both villains' motivations are totally personal against Batman/Bruce, this argument has merit). The media calls for Batman to retire. Having fallen in love with Chase, and wanting to prevent Dick from following him down the path to vengeance, Bruce does indeed retire, as we saw earlier. When Two-Face shoots Bruce in the head, he becomes a partial amnesiac, and awakes in this scene here remembering his life as Bruce Wayne, but not as Batman. Alfred, knowing Batman is still needed, takes Bruce on a tour of the destroyed cave, trying to jog his memory. Desperate, Alfred pushes Bruce back into the cave, wherein Bruce finds his father's journal, left here by him as a boy. And what is the secret of the journal? That it was his parents', Thomas and Martha's idea to go see Zorro. Bruce had remembered being a boy and insisting on going out to see a movie, and so blamed himself for his parents' death. But Bruce had wanted to see a cartoon, and it was his father who insisted he see a revival showing of Zorro at an old theatre in a bad part of town. It was not Bruce's fault that his parents were murdered. In a moment of catharsis, Bruce lets go of the pain he has carried his entire life and then is once again confronted (in a rather over-the-top and operatic sequence) by the giant, mythical, totem-bat that frightened him as a child, and in a truly bizarre and clearly purely symbolic moment, it flies right up to Bruce and he embraces it. Emerging from the cave, he declares to Alfred that he is Batman, now and forever. Wow. So not only does this deleted segment kinda explain the whole movie, it also explains the frakkin' title! The whole thing gives a character arc for Bruce designed to take him from the dark, outcast, semi-obsessed and wholly lethal Burton version of the movies and transition him into being the far more rational and heroic version of the comics. Who knew that BATMAN FOREVER was actually a semi-good movie with kinda interesting ideas, but that they were all hidden in the deleted scenes?? Why was this stuff excised? Well, part of it was length. WB wasn't in the mood for their blockbuster Bat to be 160 minutes long (Schumacher is no Chris Nolan). Another part is that this whole final sequence, while crucial, happens at the point in the movie where you really kinda just want to have the climax and go fight the villain, so some executive probably accused it of "slowing down the movie". And the whole "Bruce undergoes an inner psychological struggle, which he then overcomes by embracing the symbolic giant bat-totem of his innermost self" is a pretty heady idea for a summer blockbuster movie to be based around.

thecolorsblend wrote:Wowzers, I signed in today specifically to talk up Batman Forever. Watched the extras for that special edition DVD from a few years ago last night. Underneath all the neon, goofy villains and cartoon sound effects, there's some pretty dark shit in Forever, with or without those deleted scenes. No, the movie isn't perfect and parts of it really haven't aged well but it's still fun and a bit better than some people want to give it credit for.

And yes, we need an extended cut with some of those other scenes put back in and the original order of scenes restored. Long overdue. And also highly unlikely.

thecolorsblend wrote:Wowzers, I signed in today specifically to talk up Batman Forever. Watched the extras for that special edition DVD from a few years ago last night. Underneath all the neon, goofy villains and cartoon sound effects, there's some pretty dark shit in Forever, with or without those deleted scenes. No, the movie isn't perfect and parts of it really haven't aged well but it's still fun and a bit better than some people want to give it credit for.

And yes, we need an extended cut with some of those other scenes put back in and the original order of scenes restored. Long overdue. And also highly unlikely.

non_amos wrote:Campaign for the equivalent of THE DONNER CUT in the case of this film. Seriously. I know this has nowhere near the notoriety that Donner's situation did but it'd still be neat for the fans, about like Daredevil's Director's Cut.

James Stocks wrote:I actually just got the extended soundtrack a month ago. To me it shows that the film's composer seems to get the films a lot more than its director and writer. I'd love to get a quality BATMAN & ROBIN soundtrack (I have the bootleg) but it looks like the label that did the extended release of BATMAN FOREVER will not be able to get it done because WB will only allow them to release soundtracks that already were released on their label. BATMAN & ROBIN never had its own proper soundtrack release, so if there's ever to be one it will be by WB first and who knows how long it takes.

I'd like to get BATMAN & ROBIN. People say it's mostly the same as FOREVER, and it's somewhat true but the difference is in composition and execution. It's a lot more heavy and some motifs are really beefed up.