'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  non_amos on Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:12 am

thecolorsblend wrote: 


I can already predict that people will lose their shit over Superman killing Zod. Superman killed Zod in this movie. Before credits roll, Zod is dead and the reason Zod is dead is because Superman killed him. I'm one of those people who think Superman shouldn't kill without a damned good reason. Superman doesn't kill... but if he does, these are basically the circumstances where he'd do it. Part of me takes issue with doing this in the first movie of a reboot but that seems like a quibble.

As you can see from my post I missed the film tonight unfortunately. Fortunately though I don't mind spoilers. So just how does Superman kill a fellow Kryptonian, especially without Kryptonite? Interestingly I haven't quite found the exact comics captions that I wanted to post like showing multiple panels but I did find this that you posted some time ago in my Google search:



I did find this one image like I was looking for but not the entire thing explaining it:



I know you're familiar with this but from what I remember reading back in the day Superman had initially robbed them of their powers through Pocket Gold Kryptonite. Superman himself was unaffected by any of that universe's K because of some slightly different chemical composition or something. So he robs their powers with Gold K but Zod vows to somehow, some way, find a way to regain their powers & then make it to Superman's Earth & destroy it too. Superman believes him, that's why he lays the Green K Smackdown on them. But from what I recall he then exiled himself from Earth due to overwhelming guilt. But since there's no K in MOS how then does Superman kill Zod? Like I said, I don't mind spoilers.


The music fit the film. The new hero theme for Superman is understated but clear and recognizable. I enjoyed it. The percussive music is somehow less noticeable given how bombastic the movie itself is. I really enjoyed the music. Through out, I never missed Williams.

And let's talk about Cavill. When Cavill was doing his thing, at no time did I ever miss Reeves, Reeve, Cain or Welling. And seriously, do I even need to mention Routh? Cavill dominated this movie, hitting all the right notes at all the right times.

A couple of things here. I watched Superman: the Movie a few nights ago to prep for seeing MOS. I watched the Theatrical Cut & hope to see the Extended Cut sometimes this weekend. I prefer the extended but that's a topic for another thread. Anyway, I still enjoyed the film & it truly is one of the great films of the 20th Century, no doubt about it. However, simultaneously it felt kinda dated too. Does that make any sense? Reeve was great, the cast was great, the music was great but it still felt dated. The effects were great for the day but somehow now they just don't compare to current FX like we saw in Avengers. I suppose the whole 70's appearance doesn't exactly help either. And here's the thing I noticed. The Williams theme was great for that series, right? But from what I've seen of MOS so far it doesn't seem like it would fit there. At all.

As for Reeve, these negative reviews I've read this very week on this site have had the gall to put down Cavill in comparison to Reeve! "He doesn't wink & smile like Reeve." "He doesn't have Reeve's sense of humor." "He barely smiles at all" "He barely speaks." Yada, yada, yada. But judging from what you're saying it sounds like Cavill nailed it! So what is it with these critics that they can't just let Reeve rest in peace?


Superman punches the absolute fuck out of the rogue Kryptonians. No "protector" shit, no "finding another way". You cross Cavill's Superman and it's your ass. Several Kryptonians had to learn that lesson the hard way.




This reminds me of the Golden Age 'Earth-2' Superman. This also reminds me of George Reeves. This sounds like a take that is long overdue. And I welcome it. I just hope that he doesn't rescue any cats from trees! But pummeling the bad guy? Bring it on! Speaking of which, it sounds like there are more than just 2 Kryptonians so is NON anywhere present or his comics counterpart?

Ya know, if ol' Webhead2006 were still here he'd certainly have chimed in by now also but I'm not sure if the dude is even still alive. Why? Some months ago after we discussed him I went to SHH to try & find him. Sure enough, his user ID there was the same as here but ya know what? He hasn't been here since last November. Well, he hasn't been there since September of last year if I remember correctly. I know he loved those forums especially for Spiderman but he's been here since he's been there & he hasn't been here in ages so I just wonder if something happened? I guess we'll never know.

Now off to see it Saturday unless I watch the crappy online version also.
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  thecolorsblend on Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:41 am

non_amos wrote:As you can see from my post I missed the film tonight unfortunately.
Sorry about that, man. Freaking sucks.

non_amos wrote:Fortunately though I don't mind spoilers. So just how does Superman kill a fellow Kryptonian, especially without Kryptonite? Interestingly I haven't quite found the exact comics captions that I wanted to post like showing multiple panels but I did find this that you posted some time ago in my Google search:



I did find this one image like I was looking for but not the entire thing explaining it:



I know you're familiar with this but from what I remember reading back in the day Superman had initially robbed them of their powers through Pocket Gold Kryptonite. Superman himself was unaffected by any of that universe's K because of some slightly different chemical composition or something. So he robs their powers with Gold K but Zod vows to somehow, some way, find a way to regain their powers & then make it to Superman's Earth & destroy it too. Superman believes him, that's why he lays the Green K Smackdown on them. But from what I recall he then exiled himself from Earth due to overwhelming guilt. But since there's no K in MOS how then does Superman kill Zod? Like I said, I don't mind spoilers.
Your memory serves you well. Those images come from The Supergirl Saga, which were Byrne's closing statements on Superman. You pretty much nailed it with the setup for Superman killing the Kryptonian villains.

Superman killing Zod in MOS was less operatic than that. He and Zod were throwing in a commuter train station and Zod had finally mastered heat vision and, while he and Superman grappled, he slowly began turning it on innocent bystanders. Superman already had him in a choke hold and BEGGED him not to kill them but Zod kept firing away. Zod had earlier threatened to destroy the entire planet as Superman had ruined his plans to re-establish Krypton on Earth.

The guy had no other choice!

Something else? I don't need some fucking Superman II fanboy lecturing ME about Superman's morality and sense of fair play. I've already seen some blowback on Facebook about this and the troglodytes who don't seem to mind Superman crushing a regular human being's hand and then tossing him to his death (take your deleted scenes outside, nobody cares; if it ain't in the movie, it didn't happen). When they can find the same moral outrage over Reeve's Superman wantonly killing or tacitly permitting the deaths of THREE PEOPLE, I'll worry about where Snyder might have gone wrong with MOS. Until then, they can all have a nice warm glass of the shut the hell up as far as I'm concerned.

non_amos wrote:Reeve was great, the cast was great, the music was great but it still felt dated. The effects were great for the day but somehow now they just don't compare to current FX like we saw in Avengers. I suppose the whole 70's appearance doesn't exactly help either. And here's the thing I noticed. The Williams theme was great for that series, right? But from what I've seen of MOS so far it doesn't seem like it would fit there. At all.
I would agree. I can't think of much from MOS that any Williams music would have really fit. Snyder's Krypton is fundamentally different from Donner's. The tone is just too far apart. So that music is out. Ditto most of Superman's rescues. Shit, even his first time in the new suit just strikes a different vibe. The MOS music is good, don't misinterpret me, but my argument is that all of MOS puts paid to the idea that Williams music can be used for all things Superman. I think Smallville alone proved otherwise but MOS is the final nail in that argument's coffin.

non_amos wrote:As for Reeve, these negative reviews I've read this very week on this site have had the gall to put down Cavill in comparison to Reeve! "He doesn't wink & smile like Reeve." "He doesn't have Reeve's sense of humor." "He barely smiles at all" "He barely speaks." Yada, yada, yada. But judging from what you're saying it sounds like Cavill nailed it! So what is it with these critics that they can't just let Reeve rest in peace?
My view is that critics live to bash and whine and gripe and complain. Look at Rex Reed. If you address every single one of his criticisms in his bullshit review, you're basically looking at a remake of Superman III.

As much as I dig that movie, does ANYBODY think that Superman III represents what modern audiences want in a Superman film?

Fundamentally, MOS is getting some toxic reviews from Apologist reviewers or, lacking that, reviewers who have it in for Snyder. There's simply no way to criticize much of the story, acting/cast, effects, music, editing or much else on technical terms. All are first rate.

My firm belief is that most people who don't like MOS must not like Superman or else have an agenda specifically to hate on MOS irrespective of its actual merits (of which there are many).

non_amos wrote:This reminds me of the Golden Age 'Earth-2' Superman. This also reminds me of George Reeves. This sounds like a take that is long overdue. And I welcome it. I just hope that he doesn't rescue any cats from trees!
Nothing like that. In the pre-Superman stuff toward the beginning of the movie, a truck-driving bully tries to pick a fight with Clark (after Clark tries to get him to stop harassing a waitress) in a diner. The guy tries everything but ultimately Clark lets it go... except for crucifying the guy's 18-wheeler truck on some telephone poles. In fact, that almost came off as a repudiation of Superman II in some respects. It's like Snyder is trying to say "Superman wouldn't lower himself to push some dipshit nobody trucker around... but he will fuck up the guy's truck." As I really analyze it though, that is kind of over the line for Superman to do. But whatever, it's small potatoes in the grand scheme of all this MOS/Snyder coolness.

non_amos wrote:But pummeling the bad guy? Bring it on!
You'll have your fill of that, trust me. Just when you think there won't be another fight... there's another fight. Snyder went into this thing with an agenda to show you just how much ass Superman can beat when he gets good and ticked off.

non_amos wrote:Speaking of which, it sounds like there are more than just 2 Kryptonians so is NON anywhere present or his comics counterpart?
I forget the character's name (or else it's never spoken aloud) but there is a big bruiser type that Superman gets beaten around by. He and Faora team up on Superman in the fight in Smallville. Superman has obviously grown up with powers but it's a much bigger deal to have to use them openly and in such a brazen fashion that it takes time for him to get the hang of using his powers on an offensive basis. THe big bruiser and Faora are even newer to their powers but that's somewhat balanced by their training as soldiers. So it comes off as a kind of even fight. At least at first.

I don't think his name was Non as that would have stood out but I don't recall him having many (or any) lines so in some sense I guess he was the Non of this movie. But it was a pretty small role so no big deal. Zod is the main heavy.

Oh, one other thing. You can stay through the credits if you like but there's no prize for doing so. Once credits roll, that's it. No mid/post credits stuff here. Oh well, you can't have everything.
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  non_amos on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:02 am

What about Easter eggs? I understand that they're present galore. One that I've read about is that Zod destroys a satellite that has Wayne Enterprises or some such on it, obviously alluding to Bruce Wayne/Batman. I don't have the article handy at the moment but from something Goyer said recently it sounds like this is gonna be a new take on Batman leading up to Justice league but that Nolan's films belong 'in their own universe'. So ultimately we get a new Batman too. And besides the Lexcorp Easter egg it sounds like there's others but I'm not really sure what they are yet. As for Lex, is he in the film or not? Snyder sounded like he's not in the film but 'he's out there somewhere'. But what about the guy who played the Lex clone from Smallville? Certainly he played Luthor, right? Or was it another character?
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  thecolorsblend on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:37 am

non_amos wrote:What about Easter eggs? I understand that they're present galore. One that I've read about is that Zod destroys a satellite that has Wayne Enterprises or some such on it, obviously alluding to Bruce Wayne/Batman.
The satellite thing is for real but I don't remember seeing (or not seeing) anything related to Wayne Enterprises on it. This is the first I've heard about that.

non_amos wrote:I don't have the article handy at the moment but from something Goyer said recently it sounds like this is gonna be a new take on Batman leading up to Justice league but that Nolan's films belong 'in their own universe'. So ultimately we get a new Batman too.
I'm fine with that. Let Nolan's thing be Nolan's thing. I don't want that canonized in a shared universe. It works as a sort of Elseworld's Batman but for a shared universe, we need something more in line with the Batman comics.

non_amos wrote:And besides the Lexcorp Easter egg it sounds like there's others but I'm not really sure what they are yet.
There's General Swanwick. Apart from that and the Lexcorp thing, I didn't catch a whole lot of the hidden nuggets.

non_amos wrote:As for Lex, is he in the film or not?
No. The closest he comes to appearing in the movie is a truck with a Lexcorp logo on it.

non_amos wrote:Snyder sounded like he's not in the film but 'he's out there somewhere'. But what about the guy who played the Lex clone from Smallville? Certainly he played Luthor, right? Or was it another character?
That dude plays a Kryptonian, the technician/all-purpose scientist in Zod's crew. He figured out where Jor-El stashed the Kryptonian codex (ie, a repository of every Kryptonian's DNA... which, having replicated on Earth, would allow Zod to resurrect basically everybody). But otherwise, his role is fairly minimal. I thought he might've been cast as Lex (which would've been fine, I loved him as Lex in Smallville) but that's not the case.

One part that amused me was Alessandro Juliani played Emil Hamilton in Smallville. He's also in MOS, where he has at least a couple of scenes with Richard Schiff, who plays Emil Hamilton in MOS.

In fact, you can sort of make a drinking game out of some peoples prior associations with Superman. Cavill basically had the gig nailed down for that movie McG never made, Amy Adams guest starred in Smallville, ditto the Lex clone dude, as above there's Juliani, Diane Lane played Toni Mannix in the George Reeves bio-movie from a few years back and there's probably other shit going on too.

I just read the MOS review that Knowles posted over on AICN... and, y'know, he really hits a level of detail that I haven't.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/62841

He (factually) points out that this ain't Donner's Krypton. If you're looking for more crystal stuff, you're out of luck. He compares the Krypton in this movie more to the Silver Age. And honestly, apart from Jor-El riding around on some sort of pterodactyl kind of thing (which reminds me of Birthright), I think that's probably accurate.

Also, children are genetically-engineered to serve specific functions in society on Krypton. Kal-El is the first in centuries to be born in utero (his birth is how the movie begins) which means he has a depth of free will that simply isn't available to other Kryptonians. Zod was manufactured to be as brilliant, deadly and protective of Krypton's legacy and future as he is. When Superman effectively commits genocide against the Kryptonians by sending them to the Phantom Zone and Zod loses his entire reason for being, THAT is when Zod becomes completely unhinged. He was always dangerous but now he's an absolute ENEMY.

Speaking of, I somehow overlooked Shannon in my review. You know how you don't miss Reeve or Welling when Cavill is on the screen? Trust me, you won't miss Stamp when Zod has screen time. This ain't Stamp's Zod. That was a power-hungry would-be tyrant. This Zod is as I've described. Shannon brings true menace to the character but he also reminds you that, underneath everything else, he's basically a living machine trying to salvage a really fucked up situation. You take away his intended purpose and that's when he becomes a genuine THREAT.

One thing that bugs me now that I'm really thinking back on things is the lack of transition from Clark The Kid to Clark The Lost Outsider. It sort of makes the Metropolis Clark we see at the end of the film kind of hard to buy into in retrospect. Did Clark graduate high school? Presumably not college... which makes you wonder how he can get a job at the Daily Planet. I let Smallville slide on that since it had bigger things to do than tie up every single little background detail but it was a quibble with Smallville and it's a quibble here.
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  non_amos on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:51 am

A couple things I forgot.

1) There's obviously no 'sissy kicking' fighting between the Kryptonians like we saw in Superman 2 so as good as I loved that film is it now irrelevant? If I watch it in order after the 1st film am I gonna be extremely disappointed with it after I've seen MOS?

And

2) Who was the guest cameo in the film that was really gonna have everyone talking? Supposedly someone from other Superman media that would really have us all talking. So just who was it exactly?
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  thecolorsblend on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:09 am

non_amos wrote:A couple things I forgot.

1) There's obviously no 'sissy kicking' fighting between the Kryptonians like we saw in Superman 2 so as good as I loved that film is it now irrelevant? If I watch it in order after the 1st film am I gonna be extremely disappointed with it after I've seen MOS?
I'm hesitant to say that MOS makes Superman II obsolete because that one will always be a sentimental favorite for a lot of us. But as far as action, carnage, kickass fights, high stakes and all that, yeah, MOS easily outclasses Superman II. I'm dead serious, Snyder threw in the damned kitchen sink with the Metropolis showdown in MOS. None of that kick stuff. Superman beats the piss out of Zod, Zod punches and/or throws Superman through dump trucks, fucking buildings collapse, the whole program. Shit, I'd go so far as MOS even tops Avengers in terms of the scope of the action, shit getting torn up and all that. An entire section (looks like several square miles) of Metropolis is reduced to dust... and that's before the climactic smackdown with Zod in the commuter station where Superman breaks Zod's neck. The Metropolis city planners had their work cut out for them after the two minute mark of the big battle, forget about what happens next. I'm not trying to set you up for disappointment but at the same time I cannot over-emphasize how fucking EPIC the Metropolis fight is. After the Smallville fight, you'll logically think "okay, Snyder just shot his load and now we can ONLY have another hour or so of talky Bryan Singer bullshit because there's nowhere else to go from here". Wrong. As big as the Smallville battle is (and it IS big; Singerman didn't have this level of havoc in Sydneytropolis), it just doesn't belong in the same sentence as the pure insanity and destruction of the Metropolis fight.

non_amos wrote:2) Who was the guest cameo in the film that was really gonna have everyone talking? Supposedly someone from other Superman media that would really have us all talking. So just who was it exactly?
I'm starting to think that rumor was in error (or else the scene/character was deleted from the movie) because if such a cameo took place, it went right by me and several others. Given that I've just seen the movie, talked it over a bit with some friends and gorged on spoiler reports and movie reviews, either the shit isn't in the movie or every source I have access to missed it.
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  Apologist Puncher on Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:37 am

I'll post my review tomorrow, as I saw 'MOS' TWICE tonight. But I'll let you know what the cameo was:

When Superman is under the gravity beam, his face changes into Christopher Reeve's for a split second.

No lie.

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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  BHoward on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:13 am

I thought I saw that as well. Wasn't sure.  Absolutely loved this movie.  S:TM has always been my favorite comic movie from the moment I saw when I was 10 years old and saw it the opening weekend.  Changed my life.  Christopher Reeve has always been a personal hero.  Not taking anything away from that series of movies I can finally let go of it.   Without going into a review of the movie I absolutely loved this movie.  The Smallville fight put me in the mind of the East Houston destruction in Superman 2, times 1000.  The final battles in Metropolis was times 100000000.  I cant imagine how they will be able to remove all the debris and rebuild the city.  I suppose this is where Lex and Lex Corp will come in and gain favor with the citizens vs the Alien.  

 Am so satisfied with this movie.

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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  non_amos on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:42 am

Apologist Puncher wrote:I'll post my review tomorrow, as I saw 'MOS' TWICE tonight. But I'll let you know what the cameo was:

When Superman is under the gravity beam, his face changes into Christopher Reeve's for a split second.

No lie.

Ya know, I know I posted somewhere on here not too long ago about I believed that it was either something somehow honoring Reeve or that it was probably a guest appearance from the likes of Sarah Douglas & Jack O'Halloran since I believe they had already expressed interest. However, I wouldn't have imagined them changing Cavill into Reeve. I would've expected more like showing the Reeve Foundation or whatever it's called. I'll have to be on the lookout for this.
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  thecolorsblend on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:50 pm

Apologist Puncher wrote:I'll post my review tomorrow, as I saw 'MOS' TWICE tonight. But I'll let you know what the cameo was:

When Superman is under the gravity beam, his face changes into Christopher Reeve's for a split second.

No lie.
Hm. When I saw that, I thought it was just my imagination. Interesting.
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  lib on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:18 pm

can anyone confirm that this scene was in the movie?  i'm going to see Man of Steel on Monday

http://www.joe.ie/movies/news-3/video-is-this-christopher-reeve-in-a-cameo-for-the-new-superman-you-decide/
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  thecolorsblend on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:50 pm

Just saw it a second time. A few things.

01- The theater was PACKED. When I saw it on Thursday night, the thing was maybe half full. But (A) this wasn't the midnight premiere and (B) tickets could only be had from Walmart. I've heard stories of packed Walmart/Thursday screenings and also stories of packed/sold out shows today and I believe it.

02- The crowd dug the hell out of the movie. They oohed and ahhed in all the right places, the chuckled at the moments of levity that 99% of the haters refuse to acknowledge exist and generally they had a ball with it. The people I saw it with on Thursday night are undoubtedly the core audience of the movie. Tonight's group ranged from people who have some familiarity with/interest in comics (the boundaries of the core audience) and civilians (comic book n00bs like these are the dictionary definition of "wide audience"); all unanimously approved. There was some good-natured bickering over just how much carnage and devastation "ought" to be in a Superman film but it was small potatoes. During the movie, lots of people in the theater leaned forward in their seats because they were invested in the story and the characters. All of this is to say that I'm convinced this movie will play for wide audiences.

03- The Puncher isn't messing around, there really is a Reeve easter egg in that part of the movie. It's in the middle of a strobing effect and Cavill's cheeks are being blown around by the air and the force of the laser beam so it's intentionally ambiguous. If you don't see it, no big deal. But even if you do see it, you might think it was just a trick of the light or something like I did. But yeah, it's for real.

04- Apart from that, the movie holds up to repeat viewings. The entertainment value holds. Some things aren't really addressed though. Okay, so Zod and co. just drifted in space for 30'ish years. They could somehow detect the scout ship being activated on Earth from who knows how far away? Okay. Unlikely but okay. But during that whole time, um, what, they just happened to have thirty years worth of supplies for 6 to 12 Kryptonians? TDK and TDKRises had much bigger plot holes than this so in the big scheme of things, this stuff is kind of irrelevant but a line or two of dialogue could've easily fixed these small problems.

05- Now that I think about it, "kneel before Zod" is nowhere in the movie. There isn't even a reference to it. And for that, I'm grateful. I'm happy that Snyder had the courage to break away from that easy, overdone, fan-servicey line.

06- Superman broke Zod's neck. He killed him. I'd read a rumor to this effect a week'ish ago and took it with a grain of salt and obviously got caught off-guard by it on Thursday night. Seeing it again... yeah. I stand by my original words on this. Superman was justified in killing Zod. Superman shouldn't indiscriminately kill so let's not set up that idiotic strawman argument. Superman shouldn't kill... except in extraordinary circumstances. And a militant, pissed off, super-powered Kryptonian terrorist bent on destroying the entire world who has promised he won't stop until he's put down like a dog is VERY close to the gold standard for when Superman should whack a muthafucka.

07- "I'm as American as it gets." Yes you are, Mr. Superman. I'm sure lefties everywhere lost one of their paired reproductive organs over that but I loved that line.

EDIT- Oh, something else. Box Office Mojo pegs Man of Steel at $12 million in the US on Thursday night. Decent, yes?
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman2012.htm
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  non_amos on Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:00 am

thecolorsblend wrote:


05- Now that I think about it, "kneel before Zod" is nowhere in the movie. There isn't even a reference to it. And for that, I'm grateful. I'm happy that Snyder had the courage to break away from that easy, overdone, fan-servicey line.

I never bothered to post the article but the other week Michael Shannon was asked about that at one of the many related movie sites I've been checking this out on & he confirmed that there was no 'kneel before Zod'. He basically implied that Snyder was going a different direction. And it's probably for the best but I'm sure there's gonna be critics of this too.


07- "I'm as American as it gets." Yes you are, Mr. Superman. I'm sure lefties everywhere lost one of their paired reproductive organs over that but I loved that line.

I bought this special Superman issue of MOVIE MAGIC on Memorial Day & there's a part where they quote Blandon 'BJ' Routhman as saying:


"Superman changes with society," says Routh. "With our view of society, he becomes bigger. In the '50's, Superman was America. For me, it's not about that. I mean, it's Truth, Justice, but it's not just the American way."

And people wondered why Singerman failed? There you go, Truth, Justice & 'all that stuff.' I'm glad MOS ain't apologizing for anything!
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  thecolorsblend on Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:02 am

Yeah, totally. I mean, on the one hand, it does sound incredibly jingoistic. But on the other hand, other countries have characters that are of those countries. Robin Hood, James Bond, Harry Potter, Sherlock Holmes, Scarlet Pimpernel, Godzilla, all things Shakespeare, so on and so forth, they all come from specific countries and cultures. No matter how high the stakes some of those characters play for, nobody calls for those characters to "embody the whole world". So why the fuck should Superman? There's nothing wrong with him being thought of as an American icon. I don't want an "international" James Bond and I don't think "the rest of the world" should insist on a fucking "international" Superman. I love that Snyder and Goyer get that being "iconically American" isn't the same "jingoistically American".

BIG ASS EDIT- I've linked to podcasts before where I think they're relevant and that's where the link below comes in. As far as influences go, this podcast episode includes Jeffrey Taylor, who got to do a set visit while MOS was shooting (outside the auspices of the Eunuch page, incidentally; Taylor was on the set for a few days while "working" for some other movie web page) during which he interviewed Cavill, Snyder and others. In this episode of a podcast, Taylor reports that Goyer told him that a lot of young people don't know Superman's origin anymore because they haven't seen the Reeve movies. With respect to Smallville, fewer people saw tbe show than will see Man of Steel so Goyer thought it important to show the origin in MOS. Taylor then goes on to say that Goyer implied that he wasn't really hip to Smallville anyway. That would seem to fit as I think the Smallville influence some of us detected was more visual, which is Snyder's territory.

Even so, Goyer also wrote in Lois being in on the ground floor of Superman so either the show is better than he thinks or else he's not as creative as he thinks.

This was all done in the context of how "quickly" Man of Steel put Clark in the outfit. Well, um, that happend about 40'ish minutes into the movie, which is comparable to STM. If it feels "quick" to you, it's because you're invested in the story and are digging where things are going rather than shifting uncomfortably in your seat until Superman shows up and does his thing. So if anything, it's a compliment to the film that you think it happened fast because it really didn't.

Once you accept that Taylor is a compulsive name-dropper, his remarks are fairly informative.

http://www.supermanforever.com/superman-podcast-network-man-of-steel-discussion-and-review
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  Apologist Puncher on Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:29 pm

Fuck. I was almost done with my review, and all of a sudden this shittin' thing DELETED IT ALL. And I don't feel like starting over.

Saw it at 7pm and midnight. Loved it. Wasn't perfect at all, but I loved a helluva lot more than I had issues with.

-Cavill was HUGE. Where are the faggoty "muscle suit" bitches NOW?? Was he wearing one in that scene at the end in the cemetery? Guy has "it". Loved the "You think you can threaten my mother??" line when he's pummeling Zod. And the joy he expressed when he finally got control of his flight was amazing. FINALLY we have a Superman who ENJOYS his abilities.

- Shannon's Zod and Traue's Faora were amazing. Shannon wasn't just a two-dimensional villain. He showed real remorse when he was forced to "kill" Jor-El a second time. You saw some doubt, as if he was afraid Jor-El was right. And when his rage caused him to finally take flight and shed his armor? Damn. Traue's Faora was a warrior, and she fought like one. When she took out those four soldiers with super-speed, I was loving it. She was beautiful and ruthless, and there was NO ONE better for the role. She was Ursa X10.

-The parents. Loved them all, especially Costner's Kent. I wanted MORE of him. And his final scene, with young Clark? Perfection. Diane Lane, even "aged", is a beautiful woman and I loved how protective of her they had Cavill's Clark be. Crowe and Shannon played of each other flawlessly, with neither overshadowing the other. And Zurer's Lara was spot-on. The casting was perfect.

-Amy Adams' Lois. Beautiful and tenacious. They kind of rushed thru her investigation of Clark, but at least they showed her INVESTIGATING. Her "Welcome to the Planet" line was great.

-The action. Was it overwhelming at times? Yes. But we finally got to see Superman do things only SUPERMAN can do. Not even the animated movies have been able to convey it as well as 'MOS' did.

The not so good:

-We needed to see Superman save more regular people as Superman. I would have shown him helping people in the midst of his fight with Zod. Maybe holding up a collapsing building while people run out, before being tackled by Zod. Using his breath to blow out a fire. Smashing thru a wall so trapped policemen or fire fighters can escape. We just didn't get to see him helping as much as we should have.

-Plot holes. There weren't a lot, but they were there. Lois riding up in a local police car to the Kent farm, then calling him Clark? WTF??

-Michael Kelly's Steve Lombard. Not feeling it. They could have named him "Bill Anderson" and no one would have batted an eye. Danny McBride was my first choice, and to me still the best.

All in all, a great Superman film. I think critics decided to hate it the moment Cavill said "I'm as American as you can get". Because unless you're marginalizing or hating on America, critics will hate you. Cynical, no-talent pieces of shit. Eat a dick, every last one of you.

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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  Apologist Puncher on Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:49 pm

Oh, and did anyone else notice that when Clark was in the scout ship, and standing in front of the corpse in that chamber, that there was one that was OPEN behind him?

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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  thecolorsblend on Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:40 pm

Apologist Puncher wrote:Oh, and did anyone else notice that when Clark was in the scout ship, and standing in front of the corpse in that chamber, that there was one that was OPEN behind him?
YES! I've wondered where that might go. Supergirl? Jax-Ur? Beppo the Super-Monkey? Very Happy
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  non_amos on Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:21 pm

Apologist Puncher wrote:Oh, and did anyone else notice that when Clark was in the scout ship, and standing in front of the corpse in that chamber, that there was one that was OPEN behind him?

Yes, I did. I finally saw the movie tonight & although I may not type a review tonight since it's getting late, I will have to rate it not only the best Superman film ever but even the best superhero film! I loved Avengers but I'm inclined to think MOS topped even that. However, I wouldn't be biased in this opinion either, now would I? Wink

But back to your point. I did see that but I really didn't give it much thought. You pointing it out caused me to think about it. So who could it be? Possibly Brainiac? Maybe Doomsday? How about Krypto? I don't know but I'm sure that wasn't an accident so we'll have to see where Goyer goes with that I guess.

What bothers me though is that I'm not quite getting the Christopher Reeve cameo like the guys I was with. I told them to be on the lookout & they got it! Me? Not so much. I remember seeing something that looked like an illustration I've seen of Reeve but somehow the full effect I just didn't get. Can someone post a still or something of this?
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  superman1938 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:37 pm

I know I have not post in a while...but here it is ...I have been waiting for film for 7 years since the bad taste of Singerman.....I love Man of Steel! This was THE Supeman film we deserved....I love the action and the story....but one of the  3 friends I went to see it hated the film and said he preferred Singerman....I should have punched him...he said it was too scifi ..WTF...Superman is from another planet...man....he hated the Flash backs...I rather have flash backs then spending the whole 1st half of the movie in Smallville....also last thing....what is the big deal with a justified kill by Superman....I didn't mind but I hear some of the fanboys hated that part ...overall the best movie this summer...
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  non_amos on Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:23 pm

The 'should've punched him for Singerman' alone was worth a plus! Excited
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  Comicbookfan-V2 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:54 am

I just saw the movie last night, I should have posted a review right after I came back home but regardless there's no time like the present.

All I can say is this... Finally a kick-ass Superman film (Literally) that lived up to it's hype and everything we wanted & waited to see from! I guess it's safe to say that the efforts of the "Save Superman" campaign (Even though it can't be proven it was done) has achieved what it's been trying to accomplished since day one, and that is prompting the studio (Warner Bros.) to produce a Superman reboot that dues the franchise justice and with no connection to the Donner-verse this time.

And thats exactly what we got and then some. Cavill nailed the role to a Tee and he's now officially this generation's Superman. He also shows a conflicted side to the character from his upbringings to his status as a protector/savior (Take that Routh). Adams's portrayal of Lois was persistent, clever, proactive and if I dare say... An improvement to her past portrayals in films (Take that Bosworth). Stamp's portrayal of Zod is exactly how it should be... Zod being a general, for real this time! And with a questionable motive to come to earth not just to look for Clark but also to re-populate the Kryptonian race and have Earth transform into New Krypton. Crowe's Jor-El was also proactive in this one as well.


A few other things about the film that got my highest praise was the visuals which I know it has been discussed alot especially involving Krypton which look like an actual living breathing inhabitable technologically advance planet. And don't get me started with the overly done action/battle scenes which was more than enough to make up for everything that past "Superman" films was lacking and what we have seen in the modern media.

The only few things about the film that rub me the wrong way was the logics behind Kryptonian technology which was at least less complicated than the Kryptonian tech from the Donner films. And Jonathan Kent's death even though I kinda wish he was kept alive aleast until in upcoming sequels but on the other hand it was understandable since Jonathan actually choose this path just for sake of preserving Clark's secret.

And as for the critics who bashed the film simply because of... Having too much action, being too sci-fi-ish, Superman reluctantly killing Zod and those "Lacking Character Development" statements (Which I call bulls**t on that one) they're either Donnerites, Marvelites, Superman haters or just down right apologists who still think "Superman Returns" is the better movie. Rolling Eyes  I say F**k them all!!! Lame

To add my own verdict for "Man of Steel" I'll give it my highest score, 10 out of 10 with hands down! And huge props to Zack Snyder and co. (Take that Singer).

And now I shall mutter that sentence that I've been inching to address to anyone at the Warner Bros. studio... WAS THAT SO HARD? SERIOUSLY, WAS THAT SO F**KING HARD??! And there I said it!


Last edited by Comicbookfan-V2 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  thecolorsblend on Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:20 am

Comicbookfan-V2 wrote:I guess it's safe to say that the efforts of the "Save Superman" campaign (Even though it can't be proven it was done) has achieved what it's been trying to accomplished since day one, and that is prompting the studio (Warner Bros.) to produce a Superman reboot that dues the franchise justice and with no connection to the Donner-verse this time.
This is an element of the reboot I will probably savor for the rest of my life. Every single frame of MOS validates what we Realists said since Singerman opened and subsequently failed. It's one thing to know you're right about something but to be proved right... ah, nothing like it!

Comicbookfan-V2 wrote:Cavill nailed the role to a Tee and he's now officially this generation's Superman. He also shows a conflicted side to the character from his upbringings to his status as a protector/savior (Take that Routh).
I disagree. The conflict was almost completely one-sided. Clark may well have revealed his presence and powers to the whole world earlier; it was Jonathan that kept him on a leash and told him to hold back. Clark's journey in the movie is realizing that Jonathan had the best intentions and was concerned for Clark's well-being but he was ultimately wrong.

Comicbookfan-V2 wrote:And with a questionable motive to come to earth not just to look for Clark but also to re-populate the Kryptonian race and have Earth transform into New Krypton.
Again, I don't think I agree. I don't think anybody was so much bothered by Zod's motives as they were by his means. If he'd selected an uninhabited world to terraform, hell, Superman might've been willing to cooperate. It was the whole "transform Earth into Krypton" bit that disturbed a few people.

Comicbookfan-V2 wrote:Crowe's Jor-El was also proactive in this one as well.
I've not commented much on this but one reason Crowe's Jor-El works for me is that he doesn't spend over a decade brainwashing his son to become culturally Kryptonian. Instead, Jor-El pushes Clark to represent the best of Krypton and the best of Earth to inspire mankind toward a new destiny. STM's Jor-El set Superman up to be a do-gooder while SV's Jor-El wanted Clark to rule the world. Crowe's Jor-El wants the better tomorrow that Krypton will not and cannot have.

Comicbookfan-V2 wrote:And don't get me started with the overly done action/battle scenes which was more than enough to make up for everything that past "Superman" films was lacking and what we have seen in the modern media.
I view MOS as being a new mission statement. It basically wipes its ass with everything Singerman did wrong and, like the main character himself, leads Superman into a better tomorrow. But that doesn't "make up" for Singerman. Nothing ever has. Nothing ever will. MOS is fine in its place but never think that we shouldn't have gotten this exact movie back in 2006.

The only bright side to Singerman that I've been able to find is the Realist consensus that the Donnerverse has had its day. It was great but it's long past time to move ahead.

Comicbookfan-V2 wrote:they're either Donnerites, Marvelites, Superman haters or just down right apologists
Bingo. But let's not forget that Zack Snyder doesn't have very many devotees among movie critics.

Comicbookfan-V2 wrote:And now I shall mutter that sentence that I've been inching to address to anyone at the Warner Bros. studio... WAS THAT SO HARD? SERIOUSLY, WAS THAT SO F**KING HARD??! And there I said it!
I'm willing to cut WB a break. They did what they thought everyone wanted with Superman in 2006. "Tie it in with Donner", "cast an unknown", "spend shitloads of money", "don't turn the thing into a farce", "develop the characters", "advance the story", "don't fuck with the director; just let him tell his story", etc. From their perspective, WB complied with everything. They thought they were doing exactly what "the fans" wanted. And this went against their usual practices: There were no huge mega stars, Bryan Singer had a lot of cred after X-Men but he wasn't a huge name like Michael Bay and, anyway, who takes this cape and underwear stuff seriously? But they thought they gave us what we wanted.

If they were pissed off after Singerman tanked at the box office and if executives spent months roaming their hallways muttering "fuck those Internet people", part of me truly understands. I could never agree but I understand. They overruled almost all of their natural instincts in making Singerman and they got dicked over at the box office for their troubles. I'll never defend Singerman but I can defend WB for letting it happen. They chose badly with Bryan Singer and the film never recovered from it but we now see that if they had chosen the right director, things would've, could've and should've turned out differently. The weakness isn't Superman; it's poor fucking "talent" behind and in front of the camera. Fix THAT and everything else will fall into place.

I hope they've learned the right lessons from Man of Steel's success.
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  Comicbookfan-V2 on Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:49 am

thecolorsblend wrote: wrote:MOS is fine in its place but never think that we shouldn't have gotten this exact movie back in 2006. 
Believe me, after seeing MOS I was more than convince that not only it was the "Superman" movie we been wanting & waiting for but it's also the one we should have gotten back in 2006 instead of the one we apparently ended up with which was undoubtedly unfortunate. But the real question that should be ask is will the out come be any different than now? That part still baffles me!
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  thecolorsblend on Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:14 am

Comicbookfan-V2 wrote:
thecolorsblend wrote: wrote:MOS is fine in its place but never think that we shouldn't have gotten this exact movie back in 2006. 
Believe me, after seeing MOS I was more than convince that not only it was the "Superman" movie we been wanting & waiting for but it's also the one we should have gotten back in 2006 instead of the one we apparently ended up with which was undoubtedly unfortunate. But the real question that should be ask is will the out come be any different than now? That part still baffles me!
Excuse me, but just how the fuck is that even POSSIBLE? Numbers are like Superman; they don't lie. Go check out the Box Office Watch thread. I've posted shit which shows that MOS not only kicked the piss out of Singerman's opening weekend but it made mincemeat out of the first Iron Man's opening weekend too. Words of Solemn Truth #1: In terms of opening 2-day weekend, MOS made half again what Singerman did. If MOS follows proportionally the same rate of decline that Iron Man did, there's no reason to think MOS won't break the $300 million mark in the United States before all's said and done. That alone is a decent chunk of what Singerman did worldwide.

On top of all that, MOS grossed more this weekend than the other top 10 films FUCKING COMBINED. Shit, it's not too far off from being twice as much. That's in the United States.

As to foreign markets, they're above my paygrade but they seem to be doing fine too. People (ie, Variety and others) who know more about this shit than I do keep mentioning records being shattered overseas. Whatever, they're smarter than me so I go with it. Compare this to Singerman, where it got the hell beaten out of it even in markets where Pirates 2 came out first and the writing was and is already on the wall.

MOS is a hit. Period. Now, nobody knows the future or what coming weekends will do to MOS and nobody knows what the film's actual rate of decline will be. But as it stands, we can confidently state that it is and will be successful and, both financially and creatively, has already provided enough of a foundation not only for future Superman films but also for a Cinematic DC Universe. WB are already jockeying a sequel to MOS and planning Justice League of America. There's a reason for that.

Fuck's sake, will the outcome be any different? It's already different!

EDIT- Oh, and something else? I'm not the only one throwing out a $300 million domestic take for MOS.

Box Office Mojo wrote:While critics weren't thrilled with Man of Steel—it's currently rotten on Rotten Tomatoes—audience for the most part seemed to dig it. With an "A-" CinemaScore suggesting solid word-of-mouth, Man of Steel should hang on well over the next few weeks. At this point, a final total north of $300 million is likely, while $350 million could also be doable.

URL- http://boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3693&p=.htm

Normally, that would go into the Box Office Watch thread but I mention it here to say that if my layman's analysis lines up almost perfectly with BOM's analysis (and let's cut the shit, they've forgotten more about box office analysis than any of us are ever likely to know), there's no reason to be skeptical about Man of Steel's long term fortunes. (A) These numbers are perfectly consistent with/an improvement on Iron Man and (B) as with Iron Man, future sequels/spinoffs can build on this foundation.
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Re: 'Man Of Steel' Reviews *SPOILERS*

Post  non_amos on Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:11 am

Hey colors! From that same Box Office Mojo link that you provided, I read this:


In need of a major franchise to fill the void left by Harry Potter and The Dark Knight, Warner Bros. put their all in to making sure Man of Steel was a hit. As far as franchise reboots go, they started in a good place: while Superman is immensely popular, audiences have largely forgotten about Superman Returns, and therefore Man of Steel never faced the same kind of skepticism that surrounded The Amazing Spider-Man last year.


Never hurts to rub that in enough per Singerman, ya know? Smile
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