Batman Feature Film Annotations

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Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:57 pm

So a friend of mine recently posted annotations for Batman films starting with the 1989 film. I recommend checking them out on his blog:

BATMAN (1989) http://dimecomicreviews.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-annotated-cinematic-batman-batman.html
BATMAN RETURNS http://dimecomicreviews.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-annotated-cinematic-batman-batman_31.html
BATMAN: MASK OF THE PHANTASM http://dimecomicreviews.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-annotated-cinematic-batman-batman.html
BATMAN FOREVER: http://dimecomicreviews.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-annotated-cinematic-batman-batman_19.html

I also highly recommend checking out his main Batman blog BAT TO THE BEGINNING that reviews every comic starting from the first story: http://goldenagebat.blogspot.com/2011/11/classic-comics-character-known-to.html


Last edited by James Stocks on Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:52 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : One thread is enough.)
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  non_amos on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:27 pm

If that's from Facebook, how come I can't get it when I click on that link? It has some sorta error message about 'not being available'. What's up with that?
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:31 pm

It's working for me. His note pages are set to public so everyone should be able to see it. I think you have to log in in order to see it. This is why I posted his whole thing here just in case because I know Facebook has this stupid policy that you can only see stuff on that site if you're registered.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  non_amos on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:33 pm

James Stocks wrote:It's working for me. His note pages are set to public so everyone should be able to see it. I think you have to log in in order to see it. This is why I posted his whole thing here just in case because I know Facebook has this stupid policy that you can only see stuff on that site if you're registered.

I'm signed in but it won't let me see it. Don't know why.

EDIT: Here's what I get:

This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:41 pm

Okay I just found out. Only his BATMAN (1989) and BATMAN RETURNS notes are available in public, the other entries are set at custom. I assumed that all of his notes were available in public, so that was my mistake. Still, I made it available quoted so there you go. When he gets BATMAN & ROBIN done I'll do the same.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  non_amos on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:47 pm

James Stocks wrote:Okay I just found out. Only his BATMAN (1989) and BATMAN RETURNS notes are available in public, the other entries are set at custom. I assumed that all of his notes were available in public, so that was my mistake. Still, I made it available quoted so there you go. When he gets BATMAN & ROBIN done I'll do the same.

So do you have to be his 'friend' on Facebook to see the content then? Or 'Like' his page? Or subscribe or what?
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:54 pm

Actually you won't have to. I totally forgot about another blog of his:

BATMAN (1989) http://dimecomicreviews.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-annotated-cinematic-batman-batman.html
BATMAN RETURNS http://dimecomicreviews.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-annotated-cinematic-batman-batman_31.html
BATMAN: MASK OF THE PHANTASM http://dimecomicreviews.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-annotated-cinematic-batman-batman.html

He hasn't posted the notes for FOREVER in his blog yet, but there's the other three. FOREVER should be put up pretty soon as he just finished writing that last night.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:38 pm

Here's his post available for BATMAN FOREVER: http://dimecomicreviews.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-annotated-cinematic-batman-batman_19.html

I knew the general idea of what the deleted scenes were about but this definitely goes into detail about how it really was the backbone of the whole flick and why the film is called BATMAN FOREVER. I would love for WB to make restore the original cut like FOX did with ALIEN 3, I'm very interested in how that all plays out. It's a shame, most of the deleted stuff actually sounds like the best part of the film too.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  Apologist Puncher on Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:40 pm

James Stocks wrote:

01:36:23 -- Okay, time to explain the big deleted subplot I've been referring to all this time. So here's what's been going on in the 40 minutes of deleted scenes: Bruce is trying to come to grips with the guilt of his actions as Batman. He refuses to kill Harvey in the opening action setpiece when he could've, but Harvey berates him for the hubris of declaring "Batman does not kill," when in this movie series, he very clearly does. Bruce's parents have been avenged, the Wayne Foundation gives millions to charity, the police handle most of the crime and are no longer corrupt, why is he still doing this? Bruce begins to believe that he is losing control of his sense of self. He no longer knows who he really is, Batman or Bruce Wayne? And these repressed memories and nightmares disturb him. He remembers falling into the cave, the bat. He remembers running from his parents' wake. But why was he running? And what does it have to do with his father's journal? Is Batman just Bruce's response to his fear? Does he only fight crime because he's still running from his pain? This is why he's seeing Chase, and the significance of his need for her dream-thingamajig. His duality here is meant to be mirrored by Two-Face, who also has several deleted scenes further explaining his rage at both Batman, his former ally in crimefighting who failed to save him, and Bruce Wayne, his old friend who seemingly abandoned him. Harvey's fall and Bruce's guilt over it further explains his reticence to kill Harvey, as well as his reluctance to take on another partner in Dick, despite his empathy with Dick's pain. Finally, the media begin a Daily Bugle style hate parade against Batman, blaming him for the Riddler and Two-Face's crime spree and declaring that supervillains would not come to Batman if he was not there for them to challenge (and given that both villains' motivations are totally personal against Batman/Bruce, this argument has merit). The media calls for Batman to retire. Having fallen in love with Chase, and wanting to prevent Dick from following him down the path to vengeance, Bruce does indeed retire, as we saw earlier. When Two-Face shoots Bruce in the head, he becomes a partial amnesiac, and awakes in this scene here remembering his life as Bruce Wayne, but not as Batman. Alfred, knowing Batman is still needed, takes Bruce on a tour of the destroyed cave, trying to jog his memory. Desperate, Alfred pushes Bruce back into the cave, wherein Bruce finds his father's journal, left here by him as a boy. And what is the secret of the journal? That it was his parents', Thomas and Martha's idea to go see Zorro. Bruce had remembered being a boy and insisting on going out to see a movie, and so blamed himself for his parents' death. But Bruce had wanted to see a cartoon, and it was his father who insisted he see a revival showing of Zorro at an old theatre in a bad part of town. It was not Bruce's fault that his parents were murdered. In a moment of catharsis, Bruce lets go of the pain he has carried his entire life and then is once again confronted (in a rather over-the-top and operatic sequence) by the giant, mythical, totem-bat that frightened him as a child, and in a truly bizarre and clearly purely symbolic moment, it flies right up to Bruce and he embraces it. Emerging from the cave, he declares to Alfred that he is Batman, now and forever. Wow. So not only does this deleted segment kinda explain the whole movie, it also explains the frakkin' title! The whole thing gives a character arc for Bruce designed to take him from the dark, outcast, semi-obsessed and wholly lethal Burton version of the movies and transition him into being the far more rational and heroic version of the comics. Who knew that BATMAN FOREVER was actually a semi-good movie with kinda interesting ideas, but that they were all hidden in the deleted scenes?? Why was this stuff excised? Well, part of it was length. WB wasn't in the mood for their blockbuster Bat to be 160 minutes long (Schumacher is no Chris Nolan). Another part is that this whole final sequence, while crucial, happens at the point in the movie where you really kinda just want to have the climax and go fight the villain, so some executive probably accused it of "slowing down the movie". And the whole "Bruce undergoes an inner psychological struggle, which he then overcomes by embracing the symbolic giant bat-totem of his innermost self" is a pretty heady idea for a summer blockbuster movie to be based around.

See, now THIS would have added something to the film, and I had no idea they cut all of this out.

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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:49 am

Indeed. And apparently the first act of the film was arranged very differently too. Instead of opening the film with Batman suiting up, it's a scene taking place at Arkham with Two-Face having escaped and leaving a wall painted in blood "the Bat must die". Immediately following this scene is the lab in Wayne Enterprises where we're introduced to Bruce Wayne for the first time, NOT Batman which emphasizes on how this film will be focusing on the Bruce's psyche and his identity crisis. This is the same scene where we also meet Jim Carrey's Nygma. When Bruce see's the bat signal he goes into his office and takes the torpedo tube to the batcave. This is where he suits up and the sequence with Two-Face at the bank begins. When the sequence ends it cuts to the laboratory where Nygma kills Stickly.

Note that in the theatrical cut when he sees the bat signal he also hears sirens. But then it turns out to be a false alarm and Nicole Kidman simply wanted to meet him. So what were the sirens all about? Just a continuity error as the result of the film being rearranged because of the deleted scenes.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:05 am

Here's part of the deleted scene




Had all of this been left intact I might have ranked FOREVER much much higher, maybe even more than the Burton films just for that story arc alone.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  thecolorsblend on Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:50 pm

Wowzers, I signed in today specifically to talk up Batman Forever. Watched the extras for that special edition DVD from a few years ago last night. Underneath all the neon, goofy villains and cartoon sound effects, there's some pretty dark shit in Forever, with or without those deleted scenes. No, the movie isn't perfect and parts of it really haven't aged well but it's still fun and a bit better than some people want to give it credit for.

And yes, we need an extended cut with some of those other scenes put back in and the original order of scenes restored. Long overdue. And also highly unlikely.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  non_amos on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:53 pm

thecolorsblend wrote:Wowzers, I signed in today specifically to talk up Batman Forever. Watched the extras for that special edition DVD from a few years ago last night. Underneath all the neon, goofy villains and cartoon sound effects, there's some pretty dark shit in Forever, with or without those deleted scenes. No, the movie isn't perfect and parts of it really haven't aged well but it's still fun and a bit better than some people want to give it credit for.

And yes, we need an extended cut with some of those other scenes put back in and the original order of scenes restored. Long overdue. And also highly unlikely.

Campaign for the equivalent of THE DONNER CUT in the case of this film. Seriously. I know this has nowhere near the notoriety that Donner's situation did but it'd still be neat for the fans, about like Daredevil's Director's Cut.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:29 pm

It's really too bad that FOREVER is often lumped in with BATMAN & ROBIN these days. Despite the goofiness it definitely was going for something more interesting than the Burton films as far as Batman's character goes. Had there never been a B&R maybe this flick would have had enough fan interest to catch WB's attention at compiling together an extended cut.

I especially want to see the alternate ending with Batman & Robin standing on a skyscraper seeing the batsignal before taking off to fight crime. Only a glimpse of that ending was ever seen on one of the ads.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  Apologist Puncher on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:15 pm

thecolorsblend wrote:Wowzers, I signed in today specifically to talk up Batman Forever. Watched the extras for that special edition DVD from a few years ago last night. Underneath all the neon, goofy villains and cartoon sound effects, there's some pretty dark shit in Forever, with or without those deleted scenes. No, the movie isn't perfect and parts of it really haven't aged well but it's still fun and a bit better than some people want to give it credit for.

Well, all that stuff that was cut out wouldn't take away Carrey and Jones trying to "Out Joker" each other, or Chris O'Donnell's horrid acting, or Bat-Ass, or the numerous plot-holes. So suffice to say this would still be a distant third in the "Burtonverse" films.

But it would be a much better film in the end with all of that put back in.

And yes, we need an extended cut with some of those other scenes put back in and the original order of scenes restored. Long overdue. And also highly unlikely.

I'd buy it, and I only own the first two Burton films...

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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  thecolorsblend on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:25 pm

non_amos wrote:Campaign for the equivalent of THE DONNER CUT in the case of this film. Seriously. I know this has nowhere near the notoriety that Donner's situation did but it'd still be neat for the fans, about like Daredevil's Director's Cut.
You're right about the Donner cut. However, and this is key, back in 1996? The chances of any Donner cut ever seeing the light of day was almost jackshit. It was fairly unknown even among core fans that such a cut could be cobbled together. In fact, I might even go so far as many core fans may not have ever realized a different director is credited for Superman II.

The reason I mention the fans in all of this is because it was the fans who drove the Donner Cut. At the end of the day, all the Donner cut really accomplished was validate the opinion some people had that Lester's would end up being the superior cut but at least both versions are out there for people to decide for themselves.

Basically, the original cut of Batman Forever is in pretty much the same boat as the Donner cut was back in 1996. Hell, it may even be in a better one because there are almost zero politics and bad blood so far as anybody knows relating to Batman. A lot of bullshit had to get ironed out before work could even begin on the Donner cut. That's not a factor with Batman Forever. Also, I don't think Batman Forever would take anywhere near as much time, effort or cost to recut.

Bottom line? I won't lead the campaign but it's hardly a lost cause to do it. If we can get the Donner cut, we can get anything.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:41 pm

Yeah, I don't think it was until the restoration project on the extended cut of SUPERMAN that the prospect of a DONNER CUT was in the air. By that point everyone started wondering about doing one and it wasn't until the fans really pushed for it that they decided to put money into such a project.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  thecolorsblend on Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:56 pm

Another thing that's helping reshape my opinion of Forever is the special edition movie score that came out a while back, particularly the hero overture. It has a 1970's/Bronze Age vibe going for it. It fits that type of era or characterization of Batman. I dig on it.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:28 am

I actually just got the extended soundtrack a month ago. To me it shows that the film's composer seems to get the films a lot more than its director and writer. I'd love to get a quality BATMAN & ROBIN soundtrack (I have the bootleg) but it looks like the label that did the extended release of BATMAN FOREVER will not be able to get it done because WB will only allow them to release soundtracks that already were released on their label. BATMAN & ROBIN never had its own proper soundtrack release, so if there's ever to be one it will be by WB first and who knows how long it takes.

I'd like to get BATMAN & ROBIN. People say it's mostly the same as FOREVER, and it's somewhat true but the difference is in composition and execution. It's a lot more heavy and some motifs are really beefed up. Here are examples:

Here's the motif during the first 24 seconds of "Victory" from BATMAN FOREVER.



Here's the same motif in BATMAN & ROBIN but given a MAJOR overhaul.

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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  thecolorsblend on Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:56 am

James Stocks wrote:I actually just got the extended soundtrack a month ago. To me it shows that the film's composer seems to get the films a lot more than its director and writer. I'd love to get a quality BATMAN & ROBIN soundtrack (I have the bootleg) but it looks like the label that did the extended release of BATMAN FOREVER will not be able to get it done because WB will only allow them to release soundtracks that already were released on their label. BATMAN & ROBIN never had its own proper soundtrack release, so if there's ever to be one it will be by WB first and who knows how long it takes.

I'd like to get BATMAN & ROBIN. People say it's mostly the same as FOREVER, and it's somewhat true but the difference is in composition and execution. It's a lot more heavy and some motifs are really beefed up.
Hadn't listened to my B&R score much so the comparison isn't there yet. Still, the meme that's been going around the web for years is that Schumacher just tracked the Forever score into B&R. But if the samples you mentioned are any indication, their ears have to be playing tricks on them. Or they're deaf, I dunno.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:02 am

Yeah they pretty much got it wrong. It was all newly recorded for B&R, really no different than how Ken Thorne reused the themes/motifs in his Superman scores while altering them enough to fit with what happens in the flick.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  Apologist Puncher on Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:27 pm

Now that Nolan is done with his "Batman" movies, expect them to put out a "Batman - The Music" set like they did with Superman.

Probably around the time the reboot is coming out.

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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:49 pm

This is a bit tricky though. The difference was that the 'Superman: The Music' set was the first time any of the extended soundtracks were ever released, never having been available individually. They've already released the extended soundtracks for Elfman's two scores and Goldenthal's FOREVER. They also confirmed that an extended soundtrack for BATMAN & ROBIN was not going to happen because they're not legally obliged to.

So if we're ever gonna get a huge mega-set like with Superman it will either be done by WB themselves or they make a new contract with Film Score Monthly/LaLaLand Records that allows them to release the B&R stuff included in a box set. Either way I agree that it's gonna be sooner or later when the reboot is creeping up. WB loves to reissue old stuff for new upcoming films.
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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  Apologist Puncher on Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:58 pm

There is $$ to be made from the music to all the different 'Batman' movies.

It'll happen.

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Re: Batman Feature Film Annotations

Post  James Stocks on Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:24 am

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