'Before Watchmen'

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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  Apologist Puncher on Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:25 pm


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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  thecolorsblend on Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:16 pm

Hm. Nice find. It does bring up a point though. Nite-Owl has a lot in common with the 60's era Batman. And no, not motherfucking Adam West; I mean the Frank Robbins/Irv Novick stuff from the mid/late 60's comics. That period was a little dark (ever so slightly more violent, a lot of evening/night settings, overall more atmospheric, etc) but heavier on detective type stories. It's pretty different from the hard-edged Batman Frank Miller popularized later.

Point is that I wonder if they'll keep that type of characterization for Nite-Owl... or if they're even aware of it to begin with. I mean, (A) being a grim, driven vigilante is sort of Rorschach's turf in the Watchmenverse more than Nite-Owl and so (B) having two guys behaving more or less the same way kind of destroys the contrast Moore wanted there to be between the characters. And (and not to beat this thing to death) (C) sequelizing Watchmen in the first place instantly calls everything into question, including how much they ever understood about this story to begin with.

Honestly, I wouldn't have even wondered about any of this except for that Jim Lee pic.
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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  webhead2006 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:18 am

Nice nite owl image.
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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  Apologist Puncher on Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:53 pm

thecolorsblend wrote:Point is that I wonder if they'll keep that type of characterization for Nite-Owl... or if they're even aware of it to begin with. I mean, (A) being a grim, driven vigilante is sort of Rorschach's turf in the Watchmenverse more than Nite-Owl and so (B) having two guys behaving more or less the same way kind of destroys the contrast Moore wanted there to be between the characters. And (and not to beat this thing to death) (C) sequelizing Watchmen in the first place instantly calls everything into question, including how much they ever understood about this story to begin with.

Expect Rorschach to be "Batman A", and Nite-Owl to be "Batman B" in this cash grab.

How are they going to properly characterize them when they don't have the guy who made them who they are giving his input?

Honestly, I wouldn't have even wondered about any of this except for that Jim Lee pic.

I used to like Jim Lee.

Used to.

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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  thecolorsblend on Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:05 pm

Apologist Puncher wrote:Expect Rorschach to be "Batman A", and Nite-Owl to be "Batman B" in this cash grab.

How are they going to properly characterize them when they don't have the guy who made them who they are giving his input?
I'm usually willing to put theories like this one to the test. But not this time. I just can't bring myself to do it.

Apologist Puncher wrote:I used to like Jim Lee.

Used to.
It's like anything, he's good at a certain type of aesthetic. He's the Michael Bay of comics. And I don't view that as an insult the way an Apologist probably would. Michael Bay makes big, action-packed popcorn movies. Jim Lee prefers the equivalent in comics. Huge action scenes, big fights, the whole burrito. But I've never seen him masterfully put together a page that so perfectly and clearly conveys the story, the characters' thoughts and all that such that text on the page is unnecessary. Curt Swan, Steve Ditko (once he found his sea legs), Jack Kirby (for as much as I'm not hip to his line style), Will Eisner, even Frank Miller you could argue, they all had that ability to tell stories visually. Jim Lee? He's virtually without peer when it comes to what he does best but he never impressed me when you start talking about the fundamentals of telling a story. He can do one hell of a pin up but he's simply not a good storyteller.

I don't mind people being fans of Jim Lee so long as they recognize his strengths and his (myriad) weaknesses.
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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  Apologist Puncher on Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:13 pm

thecolorsblend wrote:I'm usually willing to put theories like this one to the test. But not this time. I just can't bring myself to do it.

If, IF I read this, I won't be paying for them....

It's like anything, he's good at a certain type of aesthetic. He's the Michael Bay of comics. And I don't view that as an insult the way an Apologist probably would. Michael Bay makes big, action-packed popcorn movies. Jim Lee prefers the equivalent in comics. Huge action scenes, big fights, the whole burrito. But I've never seen him masterfully put together a page that so perfectly and clearly conveys the story, the characters' thoughts and all that such that text on the page is unnecessary. Curt Swan, Steve Ditko (once he found his sea legs), Jack Kirby (for as much as I'm not hip to his line style), Will Eisner, even Frank Miller you could argue, they all had that ability to tell stories visually. Jim Lee? He's virtually without peer when it comes to what he does best but he never impressed me when you start talking about the fundamentals of telling a story. He can do one hell of a pin up but he's simply not a good storyteller.

I like the way Jim Lee draws static figures.

I don't mind people being fans of Jim Lee so long as they recognize his strengths and his (myriad) weaknesses.

You mean like his collar fetish and horrid costume redesigns?

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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  Apologist Puncher on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:52 pm


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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  thecolorsblend on Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:55 am

Funny you should post this now, I was flipping through my Absolute Watchmen earlier today and it again emphasized just how incredibly unnecessary this all is. The one thing I'll grant Before Watchmen is the art. Dave Gibbons has a fairly generic art style, even by the standards of his time. I suspect Moore wanted Gibbons on the book specifically because his linen style is so forgettable.

But obviously the real strength of Watchmen is the writing anyway so it's all kind of beside the point.
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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  Apologist Puncher on Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:47 pm

I know Jim Lee is HORRID at costume design, didn't know he was such an asshole too:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/04/23/dan-didio-jim-lee-talk-chris-roberson-alan-moore-watchmen/

Dan DiDio And Jim Lee Talk Chris Roberson, Alan Moore And Watchmen
Written on April 23, 2012 by Rich Johnston in Comics

The other day, I linked to the then-upcoming LA Times panel with Dan DiDio and Jim Lee, hosted by Geoff Boucher and jokingly asked if he’d mention Chris Roberson.

He did.

Geoff Boucher: Yesterday it was announced that Chris Roberson is no longer working on the ‘Fairest’ arc. [To Lee] As a creator, how do you reconcile what Roberson had to say about DC’s stance on creator’s rights?

Jim Lee: I don’t know the writer Chris and it certainly would have helped if I could have talked to him or if he had reached out to me. I didn’t know he felt that way so it was surprising to see that. It seemed odd to me as a creator, I would not publicly state I have a problem with the company that’s paying me to do work for them and I’m going to quit after I do this one project. It would seem wise to me to wait until you finished the project to voice that complaint. You have to imagine from our perspective, for our own internal morale, what does it say for a company to hire somebody who’s that vocally against our principles and yet we’re still paying them. From that standpoint, it doesn’t make any sense.

Dan DiDio: As far as I’m concerned, he made a very public statement about not wanting to work with DC and we honored that statement.

Jim Lee also talked about the “Alan Moore situation”, saying;

This is not a situation where we have taken things from Alan. He signed an agreement and yet he said ‘I didn’t read the contract.’ I can’t force him to read his contract. So there’s all these things that people don’t know and Alan has said that explicitly – there are all these things that mitigate or go into the analysis. It’s not as clear-cut as people want to make it seem… It’s not a situation where we’re using the characters and Alan’s not being compensated. For everything that’s been done for Watchmen from the books to the movie, money has gone his way. The right amount that he deserves based on the contract. So we have honored that part of the agreement. It is something that can definitely be debated but to say that there is clearly one side that is right, I will dispute that

Dan DiDio also talks about the approach taken to create the series;

it’s all character based because we didn’t want to approach that whole world building sensibility. We wanted to keep the focus on the individuals. That’s why Silk Spectre’s story is really a coming of age story and the Comedian is just he working his way through government and ultimately how he becomes who he is. It really gets into the psyche and personality of the characters and the goal was for it to remain consistent so it could be read as one unit. So you could read the prequel material and the original and feel that they are the same world but with different sensibilities.

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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  Apologist Puncher on Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:53 pm

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/04/23/first-pages-of-rorschach-silk-spectre-ozymandias-crimson-corsair-minutemen-designs/

First Pages Of Rorschach, Silk Spectre, Ozymandias, Crimson Corsair… And Minutemen Designs
Written on April 23, 2012 by Rich Johnston in Comics



BuzzFeed, after their trip around the DC Offices, were allowed to take some shots of the Before Watchmen comic books, including these Rorschach pages by Lee Bermejo with their seventies Manhattan exotica, the Silk Spectre page by Amanda Conner that follows it with the falling snow globe and nine panel grid right out of Watchmen, Jae Lee’s Ozymandias in front of his screens and John Higgins’ Crimson Corsair, with its own parallel story to tell. And a bunch of Darwyn Cooke Minutemen designs, and the Rorschach and Silk Spectre statue designs – the latter of which DC sent us a Cease And Desist notice over back in January. How things change…










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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  thecolorsblend on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:33 pm

Apologist Puncher wrote:I know Jim Lee is HORRID at costume design, didn't know he was such an asshole too:
The ass-munch is framing the argument. For example...

Jim Lee wrote:I don’t know the writer Chris and it certainly would have helped if I could have talked to him or if he had reached out to me.
You don't know him but he's supposed to have you on speed dial?

Jim Lee wrote:It seemed odd to me as a creator, I would not publicly state I have a problem with the company that’s paying me to do work for them and I’m going to quit after I do this one project.
...

Okay, maybe my history is rusty here, I'm willing to consider that, but OF ALL FUCKING PEOPLE IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, Jim Lee has absolutely no fucking right whatsoever to say that. Image? Wildstorm? Helloooooooo?

Jim Lee wrote:It would seem wise to me to wait until you finished the project to voice that complaint. You have to imagine from our perspective, for our own internal morale, what does it say for a company to hire somebody who’s that vocally against our principles and yet we’re still paying them. From that standpoint, it doesn’t make any sense.
The one halfway logical thing he said in this entire debacle. But even here, you've got problems. Yeah, Roberson bit the hand that fed him and he paid the price. It's on him. But Roberson isn't nobody in the industry. What he says matters. No, he didn't come to you before shooting his mouth off. So maybe, just maybe, DC could reach out, figure out wtf this is all about and then try to make amends where possible. Not even because it's the right thing to do (I don't think there's any such moral obligation) but because you've got to do damage control on this. Do what Nixon tried to do- plug the leak and make "internal adjustments" as necessary.

Jim Lee wrote:This is not a situation where we have taken things from Alan. He signed an agreement and yet he said ‘I didn’t read the contract.’ I can’t force him to read his contract. So there’s all these things that people don’t know and Alan has said that explicitly – there are all these things that mitigate or go into the analysis. It’s not as clear-cut as people want to make it seem… It’s not a situation where we’re using the characters and Alan’s not being compensated. For everything that’s been done for Watchmen from the books to the movie, money has gone his way. The right amount that he deserves based on the contract. So we have honored that part of the agreement. It is something that can definitely be debated but to say that there is clearly one side that is right, I will dispute that.
I haven't kept up with every single bit of bile that's been puked up in this Before Watchmen chimichanga but I don't think anybody, not even Moore himself, is disputing the legalities or financials in all this. Of all the anti-BW sentiment I've seen, only the morons have made those arguments. The i's are dotted and t's crossed on the contract. Nobody's disputing that. Hell, even Moore himself said he deferred his royalty check for the Watchmen movie (which was apparently a big fucking check, btw) to Dave Gibbons.

The issue here is (A) the dearth of creativity at DC necessitating resurrecting the Watchmen gravytrain and (B) Moore still being pissed off that he got rooked in that contract in the first place. Now, you can agree or disagree with his points there ("maybe there's an artistic mandate underlying BW" or "Moore should've had a lawyer review the contract first!") but, to my knowledge, he's never made the arguments that Jim Lee is responding to. Lee is framing the issue as being something other than what it is to deflect criticism.

And fuck it, I can't blame him for that. If it were me, I'd probably take the money and run too. But a bullshit excuse is a bullshit excuse no matter who makes it or why. And I'm calling bullshit on this.
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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  Apologist Puncher on Tue May 15, 2012 1:54 am

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/05/14/ozymandias-2-cover-is-just-a-little-bit-kinky/

Ozymandias #2 Cover Is Just A Little Bit Kinky
Written on May 14, 2012 by Rich Johnston in Comics



We ran a couple of Before Watchmen August issue covers last week. But we didn’t run this one for Ozymandias #2, with Jae Lee showing Ozymandias in a compromising position. DC gave that one to Out Magazine. Or course they did.In the original Watchmen series, the covers formed the very first panel of the comic, the narrative continuing directly afterwards. I wonder if that will be the same this time?

And here’s the relatively sedate Nite Owl #2 cover from Kubert & Son to match…


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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  Apologist Puncher on Sun May 20, 2012 9:57 pm

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/05/18/the-before-watchmen-reviews-are-in-from-some-people/

The Before Watchmen Reviews Are In. From Some People.
Written on May 18, 2012 by Rich Johnston in Comics

Looks like midnight EST was the embargo point, for certain comic book journalists to be allowed to talk about the Before Watchmen comics they’ve seen. And a secretive project it was too!

Joey Esposito (IGN Comics): Earlier this week, I was privileged enough to head over to the DC Comics offices in Burbank, California (which are awesome) to be given a “Green Book” tour of Before Watchmen.

Jonah Weiland (CBR): CBR News was recently invited to the DC Entertainment offices in Burbank, CA to get an early look at “Before Watchmen.” Over two visits, I reviewed hundreds of pages of pencils, inks, a handful of colored pages, and even some lettered pages. Below we share some early impressions on the series, but note these aren’t full reviews as complete issues were not available.

Valerie Gallaher (nee D’Orazio, congrats on that by the way) (MTV Geek) Several months ago, DC Comics invited us to travel up Broadway and get our very first look at “Before Watchmen.” Placed in my hands was the ”Green Book,” the binder that collected — in various stages of production — the latest covers and interior pages as they came in. While not as comprehensive as reading the actual issues, viewing the collection of art and words provided me with a certain baseline as to the quality and content of the “Before Watchmen” collection of miniseries. Now that the official press embargo has lifted on “first impression” pieces, I am free to give you mine.

Anonymous (Comic Vine): Upon receiving an invitation to visit the Burbank office of DC Entertainment to check out BEFORE WATCHMEN, it didn’t take us long to start making plans to fly down. That’s right, we flew down to LA just to check out the comics. Let me tell you, it was well worth it.

After our remarkable tour of the office (more on that later), we were left alone with a giant oversized binder containing all the first issues of BEFORE WATCHMEN along with some of the second issues all in various stages of development. Some of the issues were complete while others weren’t available for viewing in color, etc.

Alex Zalben (CBSLocalChicago): We had a chance to sit down, secretly, in the DC Comics offices to flip through the “Green Book,” a collection of pages and scripts from the BW series, some finished, some without dialogue, and some just rough sketches. But it was enough to give you our impressions of the upcoming series. The main takeaway? Whatever you think about this project, the art is really frickin’ good.

Bleeding Cool, naturally, was not invited. But curiously it seems, neither was Newsarama, Comics Beat or Comics Alliance. Maybe they’re just waiting till they wake up to post.

And with Valerie Gallaher (nee D’Orazio) being invited, considering she accused current employees of DC Comics of serious sexual harassment when she worked there, it’s a interesting step on both her and DC’s part that she has gained such access.

Now, no one really touches on the oft-raised ethical issues of publishing Before Watchmen aside from Joey Esposite who says “if you are dead-set against this project existing in the first place, the quality of these comics is irrelevant. That being said, you’ll be missing out on some truly solid material.”

So, what do people think of this sold material? Here are some snippets.

Minutemen #1

IGN: The prize winner – as I expected – was Cooke’s Minutemen, which brings his patented Golden Age influenced cartooning style to the era of the Watchmen Universe’s earliest heroes like the original Nite Owl, Hooded Justice, the original Silk Spectre, and Captain Metropolis. Cooke’s work delivers the same remarkable storytelling that he’s showcased in so many projects previous; think of Minutemen as The New Frontier for Watchmen. What’s the most impressive about the first issue that I read was how Cooke kept many of the visual motifs from Dave Gibbons’ original work while maintaining a unique voice.

CBR: The story begins with Hollis Mason writing “Under the Hood” and he begins to tell his story when he pulls from a storage box the now iconic team picture of the Minutemen. This moment instantly connects the reader to “Watchmen” while transporting you back in time to the creation of that first super team. Cooke’s artwork is a perfect fit with the setting and time period “Minutemen” exists in and is filled with homages to the original series.

Of all the “Before Watchmen” books, this is the series to watch.

Vine: Beautiful book. Darwyn captures the era and time period brilliantly.

MTV: Cooke’s “Minutemen” was classic Cooke — the meta-textual resonances with his “New Frontier” miniseries giving the story a subtly added dimension.

CBS: Given that these characters didn’t really appear in the original book anyway, this is probably the one book a guilty comic book fan can pick up, with no problem. For non-fans, you’ll just want to see Cooke’s superb sense of perspective, connected layouts, and knock-out handle on the comic book form.

Comedian #1

IGN: My favorites were the aforementioned Minutemen, Comedian, and Ozymandias

CBR: Azzarello has made the Comedian a player involved in the middle of the biggest news stories of the ’60s and the cast of historical characters that make an appearance in this book reads as a Who’s Who of the time. The presence of the Vietnam War hangs over every page of this book as the Comedian’s role in politics and war is played out, beautifully rendered by artist JG Jones.

Vine: The use of so many iconic figures in this book makes it feel forced and over saturated; like the writing is trying too hard to make the character seem relevant to the time — the result is that the story felt a little flat.

MTV: Nothing short of amazing. Jones, strongly channeling Dave Gibbons on “Before Watchmen: Comedian,” has never looked this sharp, ever.

CBS: Jones art is solid, but this is the one book where it felt like the artist was stepping back to let the writer go nuts… And those familiar with Azzarello’s writing know he can go totally, totally nuts. Whatever happens, this looks like the series that will take the most chances.

Ozymandias #1

IGN: My favorites were the aforementioned Minutemen, Comedian, and Ozymandias

CBR: The story clearly gives a look in to the enigmatic personality of Adrian Veidt and his early life as a child prodigy, setting him up for decades of personal success. Lee’s pencil work looks spectacular, as one would expect

Vine: This issue is like one big Norman Rockwell painting. The art is absolutely breathtaking. The visuals are amazing.

MTV: What I saw of Jae Lee’s “Ozymandias” was so trippy it looked like it was smoked out of somebody’s magic pipe, the images a fever-dream that literally bent and swayed across the page.

CBS: his does seem like another “fill in the plot points” type book, which is fine if that’s what you’re looking for. Jae Lee’s art though, is lovely – it looks like what would happen in Norman Rockwell and H.P. Lovecraft decided to have a baby together. And then that baby drew a comic book prequel to Watchmen. That’s one talented baby, you guys.


Nite Owl #1

IGN: Nite Owl is plodding with uninspired interiors

CBR: The second reading with some text reveals more story, depicting Dreiberg as something of the ultimate fan boy, with the original Nite Owl Hollis Mason playing the role of father figure and mentor, depicting Dreiberg’s journey from fan to hero.

Vine: Feels like a Batman story in part because of Kubert’s art, and also because the story is so tragic.
Looks great. Definitely a different feel from the other titles.

MTV: “Nite Owl” was classic Joe Kubert come to life — like reading a comic from another era, but without all the self-referential “irony” and Ben-Day dots.

CBS: Just by it’s nature, this is a bit of a Batman riff, in case you couldn’t guess. But the real thrill here for comic fans is seeing classic artist Joe Kubert ink over his son Andy Kubert’s pencils. Seeing their two styles mix is a spine-tingling thrill, albeit a thrill for comic book nerds like us.

Silk Spectre #1

IGN: N/A

CBR: Enough can’t be said about the personality Conner imbues each character with. You can tell from every expressions on the faces of the cast in this book their emotional state and point of view. Cooke and Conner appear to be a match made in comic book heaven.

Vine: Conner delivers animated panels that give the reader insight into the mind of an adolescent Silk Spectre who doesn’t get along with her Mother.
There’s an interesting parallel in this issue between the older Silk Spectre reminiscing about her past as a crimefighter, and her young daughter who is daydreaming about the future.

MTV: Amanda Conner’s “Silk Spectre” was a beautifully-rendered — but unflinching — look deeper into the character and the familial relationships in her life.

CBS: For everyone else, what makes this book so surprising is how ridiculous funny it is. That’s right: a funny Watchmen book. Conner has said she based the book on the nine panel grid structure Dave Gibbons used for the original series, but it also feeds nicely into what Silk Spectre is: a throwback romance comic, but with way more moms beating up their daughters.

Rorschach #1

IGN: N/A

CBR: Bermejo’s artwork fully realizes the grimy, seedy side of 1970s New York City and the story Azzarello has crafted captures Rorschach’s essence exactly as he’s depicted in the original series — one nasty dude you don’t want to find yourself on the wrong side of.

Vine: Dark, grim, highlights the seedy, dirty underbelly os a society engulfed in pornography and drug addiction. Bermejo’s usually angelic visuals capture the grit and grime of this story.
Is Azzarello capturing the sheer essence of Moore’s Rorschach, or is he simply playing with the audience by attempting to shock them as much as possible?

MTV: Lee Bermejo’s “Rorschach” was publication-ready in simply the pencils, continuing the high bar set by him in books like “Joker” and “Batman: Noel.”

CBS: If you like to feel dirty, you will love this book. Artist Lee Bermejo is an insanely good visual storyteller – the script was separate in this book, and we understood everything that was going on. The opening page is Rorschach’s mask depicted in the clouds over New York City, and it only gets better from there.

Captain Manhattan #1

IGN: N/A

CBR: the story jumps around constantly from one time period in Jonathan Osterman’s life to another, utilizing clock pieces in the artwork throughout to reflect the journey through time Straczynski takes his readers on. Hughes’ artwork is gorgeous as always and yes, the big blue guy does show up naked in the first issue.

Vine: The issue really captures a sense of sadness, loneliness and complete isolation that the character exhibited in the original Watchmen series.

MTV: And you have the first sequential art drawn by Adam Hughes in quite some time in “Dr. Manhattan,” which is no small feat; I would imagine it involved a rather talented Hughes-wrangler.

CBS: like most of the rest of these books, this seems to be straight up prequel/biography, and we’re not as interested in books that just fill in the blanks.

Curse Of The Crimson Corsair back up strip

IGN: N/A

CBR: N/A

Vine: As beautiful as John Higgins’ art is in this story it, of all of these books, this story seems the strangest to read. This, more than any other, feels too much like Alan Moore and thus, felt like a violation of Moore’s ideas more so than the expansion of the Watchmen Universe.

MTV: N/A

CBS: N/A

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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  Apologist Puncher on Wed May 30, 2012 10:42 pm

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/05/30/john-byrne-turned-down-before-watchmen/

John Byrne Turned Down Before Watchmen
Written on May 30, 2012 by Rich Johnston in Comics, Recent Updates

Before Watchmen begins next week, DC Comics continue to show off new variant covers from the likes of Jim Lee and Kevin Nowlan, below.

One they can’t show off, however is John Byrne’s. Byrne hasn’t produced new work for Marvel and DC in some time, and has seemingly fallen out with the management to such an extent that working for them again seemed impossible, from either party. But he writes to one fan’s response to the existence of the prequel project.

Why “Urrgh”? Maybe they’ll be GOOD!

Sure, low odds, right? But you never know. And there is some serious talent attached. (Tho not ME. I was offered a cover, but declined.)

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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  thecolorsblend on Thu May 31, 2012 12:48 am

Hm. Well, can't fault the guy.

Either way though, Byrne never really was a people-person so it's no big surprise to find out he's got a borderline Alan Moore type of relationship with Marvel and DC. Then again, I do find a lot of his post-Superman work to be fairly hit and miss.

Before he took on Superman, I'd put him up against anybody. Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Chris Claremont, Dave Cockrum, Denny O'Neil, Neal Adams, you name it. He might not have the same artistic flair as some of those pencillers or the same eloquence as some of those writers but as an all-around creative powerhouse, Byrne up through the mid-80's is tough to compete with. The guy's work is just rock solid.

But after he left Superman... I dunno. I get the idea something in him broke. He's just not as consistent as he used to be. And his choice of projects? Sure, the Batman/Captain America team up was choice but Doom Patrol, Superman- True Brit, OMAC and all that? I just wanted to grab him by the shoulders and scream "you're JOHN FRIGGIN BYRNE, man! This shit is BENEATH you!"

Dunno what the hell happened...
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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  non_amos on Thu May 31, 2012 1:56 am

I loved Byrne's work on FANTASTIC 4. After that he briefly worked on THE INCREDIBLE HULK, that is, before he left them high & dry for SUPERMAN. On one hand I suppose I can't blame him for wanting to work on Supes but OTOH I personally was disappointed as to how he left Hulk. The fact that he had laid out his 'blueprint' for Hulk didn't help matters because in interviews he discussed his plans for the title & they were longer than the 6 issues he was actually on it! Superman also seemed to come out of left field in a way, sort of suddenly. But I lost track of Byrne years ago.
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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  webhead2006 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 6:07 pm

Watchmen co-creator dismisses prequel, film adaption, etc...:
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=64708
COMICS: Dave Gibbons Dismisses BEFORE WATCHMEN As "Not Really Watchmen"

The artist who created the original Watchmen with Alan Moore has dismissed DC's recent prequels,Zack Snyder's adaptation and just about every other spin-off as,"not canon," and,"not really Watchmen". Hit the jump for his comments in full. Josh Wilding - 7/28/2012

In a lengthy video interview with Eurogamer - which you can watch in its entirety below - artist Dave Gibbons was asked to share his thoughts on DC's Before Watchmen prequels. Also talking about his role in the Zack Snyder helmed big screen adaptation, Gibbons (who is currently working with Mark Millar on The Secret Service) dismissed that and just about every other non-Alan Moore/Dave Gibbons related piece of Watchmen media.

"It was a little bit out of my control, but they actually paid me quite a lot of money to be a consultant on it. I looked at two of the cut scenes and drew over a bit of artwork to show how I would draw it. That’s what they paid me… well, I’d be embarrassed to tell you how many thousand dollars for. But I was a distant consultant."

"I didn’t have a lot of input in it. To me anything to do with the movies – as far as I’m concerned, what Alan and I did was the Watchmen graphic novel and a couple of illustrations that came out at the same time. Everything else – the movie, the game, the [laugh] prequels –are really not canon. They’re subsidiary. They’re not really Watchmen. They’re just something different."

"So I was quite happy to say with the video game, yeah, I like that, and I don’t like that, and, that’s okay, because it wasn’t really anything that impinged on what we’d done creatively."

Source: Eurogamer
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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  thecolorsblend on Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:04 pm

Um... huh? I can appreciate that the guy's friendship with Moore could very well be on the line here but... really? The guy does a commentary for the Definitive Cut of Watchmen, I know he had involvement with the video game and I swear to think he's spoken at least diplomatically about the BW stuff... and now he wants me to believe he's disowning all of it as "not canon"?

Have I just about summed this all up?

EDIT- And let me hasten to add that I don't begrudge the guy cashing in. Shit, if it was me, I'd sell out so fast it'd make your head spin. My beef is only with his sudden change of heart. Otherwise? Hey, it's a free market, profit away, milk it for every dime you can get and then sell it for all you can. I love capitalism.
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Re: 'Before Watchmen'

Post  webhead2006 on Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:11 pm

I know if he was displeased with any of the stuff ie game/ffilm/prequels why bother being apart of the stuff he did do. And why go from nothing on it and wait this long to bash things. He could at least been like moore and bash from the start.
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