DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
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DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
Dan DiDio wrote:The truth is people are leaving anyway, they’re just doing it quietly, and we have been papering it over with increased prices...We didn’t want to wake up one day and find we had a bunch of $20 books that 10,000 people are buying.
http://www.vonallan.com/2011/08/minimum-wage-and-prices-of-comics.html
Very interesting... and scary for the future of this industry. I always knew prices were too high in relation to your average shmuck's income but this is something else entirely.
thecolorsblend- Moderator
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
thecolorsblend wrote:Dan DiDio wrote:The truth is people are leaving anyway, they’re just doing it quietly, and we have been papering it over with increased prices...We didn’t want to wake up one day and find we had a bunch of $20 books that 10,000 people are buying.
http://www.vonallan.com/2011/08/minimum-wage-and-prices-of-comics.html
Very interesting... and scary for the future of this industry. I always knew prices were too high in relation to your average shmuck's income but this is something else entirely.
You guys enjoy buying your DC Comics for the time being. Won't be around in about 5 years.
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
Mark Waid has said that comics face the following problems:Apologist Puncher wrote:thecolorsblend wrote:Dan DiDio wrote:The truth is people are leaving anyway, they’re just doing it quietly, and we have been papering it over with increased prices...We didn’t want to wake up one day and find we had a bunch of $20 books that 10,000 people are buying.
http://www.vonallan.com/2011/08/minimum-wage-and-prices-of-comics.html
Very interesting... and scary for the future of this industry. I always knew prices were too high in relation to your average shmuck's income but this is something else entirely.
You guys enjoy buying your DC Comics for the time being. Won't be around in about 5 years.
01- Price
02- Distribution
03- Content
Conventional thinking goes that you can fix any two of those but you can't fix all three.
However, the one thing that could save the industry is Disney's acquisition of Marvel. Disney has a funny way of getting what they want. They didn't sink a billion (or more) into Marvel just so's the comics division can close their doors. With those mouse dollars behind them, I suspect that, at the very least, the death of the comics industry has been forestalled. For now.
In-roads are being made. When I go to Toys R Us, I see (for the first time in a LONG time) comic racks. Granted, they're mostly Marvel but the point is that they're OUT there again. Disney already has licensing and merchandising deals with a lot of retailers. It's only a few extra steps into an existing infrastructure to throw Marvel comics into the mix too.
There'll be an inevitable trickle down effect going that will (to some extent or another) benefit DC. Of that much, I'm certain.
Still, I think it's crazy that things could've ever gotten to this point. At some point, probably in the mid 90's, the industry began feeding off the direct market almost exclusively and began overlooking (intentionally or not) the news stand market. Volume will lead to reduced prices so I've wondered why they've never tried to get their foot in the door at Barnes & Noble and other book sellers. The trade paperback market ALONE proves there's mainstream interest in comics. So wtf is the hold up?
Making matters worse, DC has almost gone out of their way to disenfranchise their existing readerbase. I'm sorry but that's fucking suicide with the shape the market's in. They're not winning new readers (for whatever reason) so you'd think they'd make every effort to keep the existing readers happy. But instead of that, you're getting bullshit reboots, prolonged crossover events, etc.
The most likely outcome is that original graphic novels (ie, trades containing brand new material) will eventually replace the monthly comic book. Hell, you're already seeing the opening salvo of that with DC's Earth One imprint. Sooner or later, I think that's where the market will be forced to go unless something happens to improve the situation with the monthlies.
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
I recall vividly the meltdown I had as a kid when the price of my beloved comics were raised two cents! I honestly do not know how any kid these days could really afford to be a collector and I am still totally pissed at my mother for tossing my collection out while I was away at college...
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
It would suck to see monthly books go.
webhead2006- Missing In Action
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
Ah, remember something: I NEVER said Marvel was going ANYWHERE.
Marvel is going to survive, and probably FLOURISH once DC has been downsized to just pumping out graphic novels like 'Superman Earth One' a few times a year. A lot of those few remaining DC fans will switch over to feed their "habit", and Disney will be as giddy as a pig in shit.
It utterly astounds me how stupid Dan Dildo and the idiots at DC Comics have been. First, they have Mark Millar ITCHING to take over Superman, and take him back on top where he belongs. What do they do? Pass, so he helps Marvel kick their asses on every title he touched. 'All-Star Superman' is a knockout, people LOVE IT, and still talk about it to this day. Does DC create a whole "Ultimate" line using ASS? Hell muthafuckin' NO. Why? No fucking idea.
Even though Dildo & Lee & Johns are pointing the fickle finger of fate at YOU, we all know where it really belongs.
Up their retarded asses.
Marvel is going to survive, and probably FLOURISH once DC has been downsized to just pumping out graphic novels like 'Superman Earth One' a few times a year. A lot of those few remaining DC fans will switch over to feed their "habit", and Disney will be as giddy as a pig in shit.
It utterly astounds me how stupid Dan Dildo and the idiots at DC Comics have been. First, they have Mark Millar ITCHING to take over Superman, and take him back on top where he belongs. What do they do? Pass, so he helps Marvel kick their asses on every title he touched. 'All-Star Superman' is a knockout, people LOVE IT, and still talk about it to this day. Does DC create a whole "Ultimate" line using ASS? Hell muthafuckin' NO. Why? No fucking idea.
Even though Dildo & Lee & Johns are pointing the fickle finger of fate at YOU, we all know where it really belongs.
Up their retarded asses.
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
I know that feeling rduce. When I first started collecting 11yrs ago when I was in middle school. Books where a nice 2.25 now its 3.99. God sucks so dam expensive these days. That is also a factor in why I just have a few titles as my main pulls booked every month.
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
Fair point.Apologist Puncher wrote:Ah, remember something: I NEVER said Marvel was going ANYWHERE.
Another fair point.Marvel is going to survive, and probably FLOURISH once DC has been downsized to just pumping out graphic novels like 'Superman Earth One' a few times a year. A lot of those few remaining DC fans will switch over to feed their "habit", and Disney will be as giddy as a pig in shit.
DC has a pride issue going where they don't want to be seen copying Marvel. But if something WORKS, hey, copy away. Arguably all superheroes are variations on Superman so DC shouldn't feel weird about an Ultimate type of line.It utterly astounds me how stupid Dan Dildo and the idiots at DC Comics have been. First, they have Mark Millar ITCHING to take over Superman, and take him back on top where he belongs. What do they do? Pass, so he helps Marvel kick their asses on every title he touched. 'All-Star Superman' is a knockout, people LOVE IT, and still talk about it to this day. Does DC create a whole "Ultimate" line using ASS? Hell muthafuckin' NO. Why? No fucking idea.
Hell, I'm really starting to think, in addition to the DCnu stuff, they should resurrect the Byrne Age and the Bronze Age. Y'know, standalone titles that basically tell stories in those continuities. Best of all worlds.
But nooooooooooo...
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
thecolorsblend wrote:
DC has a pride issue going where they don't want to be seen copying Marvel.
Bingo. And here we are......
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
I might as well post this item here as well as elsewhere since this seems to be the current comics discussion:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/08/dc-comics-relaunch-already-setting-sales-record-relatively-speaking.html
I found this at duh Homopage:
http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=10201#comments
Go there for nuggets. Here's one by our old friend Sabaoth:
Gee, why care about the condition of comics anymore?! But isn't that part of the point of collecting?!
I haven't real all of the comments but I did find one that actually tells it like it is:
Well said there! Yeah DC, dudes will be illegally downloading your comics just like they do their music! Let me know later how that one turned out!
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/08/dc-comics-relaunch-already-setting-sales-record-relatively-speaking.html
DC Comics relaunch setting sales record... relatively speaking
August 23, 2011 | 11:19 am
DC Comics is already setting sales records for its upcoming relaunch of 52 superhero titles, a sign that the Superman and Batman publisher's new strategy is garnering fan attention, at least for the moment.
The Warner Bros. unit revealed in a story in Tuesday's Los Angeles Times that pre-orders for Justice League No. 1, which goes on sale Aug. 31, are already higher than 200,000. That makes it the bestselling comic book of 2011. In addition six other No. 1 titles -- Batman, Action Comics, Green Lantern, Detective Comics, Superman and Flash -- have pre-orders higher than 100,000, making them among this year's bestselling comics too.
DC is relaunching its entire superhero line with No. 1 issues over the next month in a bid to simplify and modernize stories and characters to draw new, younger readers. In addition, for the first time it is making all of its comics available on digital devices like iPads the same day they go on sale in stores. It's a two-pronged strategy to revive sales in the slumping comic book market at the same time that comic book characters are being used more than ever by entertainment giants like Warner.
Of course, today's high water mark is not a lot to brag about historically speaking. Veteran writer and editor Marv Wolfman said that when he ran DC's larger competitor Marvel Comics in the 1970s, any title that sold fewer than 175,000 copies would be canceled. In today's comic book market, that would mean Justice League would be the only comic book left.
Sales of comic books have been in a long-term decline. They have dropped steadily for the past three years, and are down an additional 7% so far this year. DC has found a way to reverse that slump for a month, but the big question is whether it can bend the declining sales curve or if it will find itself in the same difficult position next year.
I found this at duh Homopage:
http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=10201#comments
Go there for nuggets. Here's one by our old friend Sabaoth:
#5 | Sabaoth on August 23, 2011 8:45pm EST
I remember the late 80's and very early 90's quite fondly. This was a time when there were ten comic book stores in my city than , comic book conventions every weekend, and people buying multiple copies of comics as if they were precious metals. I made and lost some money in all of this. But it was a great time with great folk.
But the time of the comic shops is sadly come to an end.
The future is digital.
Hopefully, digital turns a profit to the degree that comics will continue for the time being.
Digital comics are cool.
I can read a comic without having to worry about making a NM into a VF
Gee, why care about the condition of comics anymore?! But isn't that part of the point of collecting?!
I haven't real all of the comments but I did find one that actually tells it like it is:
#16 | oldskool2001 on August 24, 2011 12:00am EST
This really is sad news for the comic industry. Print media(comics, newspapers, magazines, etc.) has been a dying format for nearly a decade. There's no changing that. It's inevitable that everything is going digital.
On the flipside comes the negatives of going digital. And what's scary is the negatives far outweigh the positives in my opinion. If DC, or any other company, thinks their revenue will increase by going digital then they are really misreading the landscape. Much like music, once comics go digital it will be easy to find illegal copies for free on the internet through torrent sites and such. They can try all they want to put blocks on them and make them copy-proof, but there's always a way to illegally copy something. That is the biggest problem that will come out of this move to digital. Once people figure out how to get something for free, they usually don't go back to having to pay for it. And that has the potential to be a disaster for DC.
Well said there! Yeah DC, dudes will be illegally downloading your comics just like they do their music! Let me know later how that one turned out!
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
Bah, how bad could it be??non_amos wrote:I found this at duh Homopage:
Oh fuck, him again? Yeah, guess it'll probably be pretty bad then...non_amos wrote:Here's one by our old friend Sabaoth:
Apologist ass-clown extraordinaire wrote:#5 | Sabaoth on August 23, 2011 8:45pm EST
I remember the late 80's and very early 90's quite fondly. This was a time when there were ten comic book stores in my city than , comic book conventions every weekend, and people buying multiple copies of comics as if they were precious metals. I made and lost some money in all of this. But it was a great time with great folk.
But the time of the comic shops is sadly come to an end.
The future is digital.
Hopefully, digital turns a profit to the degree that comics will continue for the time being.
Digital comics are cool.
I can read a comic without having to worry about making a NM into a VF
Well, yeah, there's certainly that. If digital takes off, you are losing a major part of the experience of collecting. No doubts there.non_amos wrote:Gee, why care about the condition of comics anymore?! But isn't that part of the point of collecting?!
Look, I'd like to think I've got a unique perspective on this. There's a generation coming up that only knows life with computers, Internet, cell phones that do everything except make calls without dropping, iPods and all that shit. That ain't me.
There's another, older, generation that knows jackshit about that. That ain't me either.
I'm right in between. I came of age right about the time the Internet did. And unlike a lot of Apologists, I actually go to comic book stores (don't believe their hype; they don't know their back issues from their trades. 95% of them know fuck all about collecting). I see kids coming in there all the time. That's not to say the numbers are growing. Obviously they're not. But kids aren't as averse to comics as the numbers and trendings would suggest. They're simply not gravitating to comics in the numbers needed to sustain the industry.
But the ones who are there are just as techno-savvy as anybody. But they want to HOLD the comics. It's not just about some nostalgic experience for them. They want to invest through tactile sensation. They've got tons of different devices that do tons of different things. They want to go to comic book stores and they want to get something they CAN'T get on an iPad.
I don't foresee these kids (16 and younger) forsaking paper media just because a digital alternative is available. It's wrongheaded to believe that just because a digital version is available that these dang kids today will naturally and instinctively gravitate toward that.
And honestly, I think DC understands that. Say whatever you want about their creative decisions but this is a business decision that makes sense. At this juncture, digital isn't necessarily intended to put comic stores out of business. If that was the plan, they wouldn't charge cover price for the download (yes yes, I know a discount will be offered later; not the point). They simply want to open the digital channel to those who are interested.
Of course, Apologist nimrods like Sabaoth don't fucking get that. I think it was him that ranted about the digital versions costing the same as the printed versions. Well big fucking duh, Sherlock, DC isn't about to kill the golden goose by undercutting the very retailers they depend to pay their bills. That's simply not realistic right now. Maybe some day it'll be inevitable; that ain't today. CEO Cuntrag thinks he's all business-savvy just because he realizes that the digital versions could be sold for MUCH less and thus they SHOULD be. Well, no fuck stick, that ain't how it works. DC would be signing their own death warrant if they did that. And, oh yeah, the self-same retailers they depend that I just mentioned? "Mutiny" doesn't even begin to cover it.
So. Let's summarize, shall we? DC has ZERO financial interest in cutting the apron strings with established retailers. Good thing too because these dang kids today ain't necessarily fixated on digital comics. Quite the opposite, they seem disproportionately interested in the paper editions. And that's the good news: there's no reason the two can't co-exist.
As for me, if I've got a criticism about this business move by DC (and even this may be premature right now), it's that they're not quite adhering to a modern business model. Again, they don't want to kill the retailers, and that likely is a major factor here. But my thinking is that they'd get a LOT more digital sales were they to offer memberships rather than per issue downloads. Sell memberships where you pay, I dunno, $10 and each new issue of any six titles is e-mailed to you or your tablet of choice each month. For $20, you get twenty titles. For $40, maybe you get their entire assortment of titles, plus the annuals and one-shots. And for the topper, $80, maybe you get all that shit PLUS unfettered, unrestricted access to any range of back issues you want.
Again, that could easily kill the retailers anyway... but it's still a different enough business model that it might appeal to consumers who adhere to a different consumer philosophy. This model doesn't necessarily need to be competition for the brick and mortar retailers.
But, again, to even suggest the above is somewhat out of turn for me.
Up to now, all we've talked about (ad nauseum) is the downside. The up side? Digital "circulation" could be so freaking high that it permits DC to cut cover prices across the board. So maybe the paper books can go back down to, I dunno, $2.50. $1.99. Whatever. And not because the paper versions necessarily sell like gangbusters but because DC is making their bones on the digital versions. I'm not prepared to say that such is off the table. And were it to happen, the reduced cover prices would definitely allow shmucks like me to follow and collect more titles, which translates to yet more sales for DC.
The above is strictly hypothetical on my part. But I don't think it's necessarily completely outside the realm of possibility either.
The point? Fucked if I know, I lost it long ago. But what I guess I'm driving at is that the introduction of one distribution model need not mean the elimination of another.
But don't expect jackass, armchair marketing execs like Sabaoth to understand stuff like this. It probably uses too many syllables and dollar signs for his fragile little Apologist mind to follow. Obviously we know math is a problem for that bunch, the dicks.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Everything above is mostly conjecture on my part. Informed conjecture but conjecture nonetheless. He's so fucking convinced of how right he is? Go ahead then, Apologist puke. Prove me wrong. Deconstruct my points. Show me where my speculation, numbers and general philosophies are flagrantly in error.
Something tells me I'll be waiting a while. What say you, amos? Something tells me I shouldn't expect him to ever quantify what he's saying beyond feeeeeeeeeeeeelings. Ugh, when did American discourse on ANY subject become so fucking emotional and intuitive? What, are we all on The View now? Fuck me...
Some other dude wrote:#16 | oldskool2001 on August 24, 2011 12:00am EST
This really is sad news for the comic industry. Print media(comics, newspapers, magazines, etc.) has been a dying format for nearly a decade. There's no changing that. It's inevitable that everything is going digital.
On the flipside comes the negatives of going digital. And what's scary is the negatives far outweigh the positives in my opinion. If DC, or any other company, thinks their revenue will increase by going digital then they are really misreading the landscape. Much like music, once comics go digital it will be easy to find illegal copies for free on the internet through torrent sites and such. They can try all they want to put blocks on them and make them copy-proof, but there's always a way to illegally copy something. That is the biggest problem that will come out of this move to digital. Once people figure out how to get something for free, they usually don't go back to having to pay for it. And that has the potential to be a disaster for DC.
Not really. There's a limit to how specific I want to get in a public forum but DC isn't exposing themselves with digital. Not. One. Bit.non_amos wrote:Well said there! Yeah DC, dudes will be illegally downloading your comics just like they do their music! Let me know later how that one turned out!
The reason? An entire sub-culture ALREADY exists for illegally scanned comics. Some companies are more tolerant of the practice than others (DC turns a blind eye toward while Marvel drops the hammer of God). I can understand too. (A) There's an entire segment of the market that you're never going to reach. They download shit BECAUSE it's free. When the milk stops being free, these leeches stop drinking it. It's just that simple.
But (B) you simply can't argue that it doesn't introduce people to new titles. I follow Irredeemable/Incorruptible, The Walking Dead, Morning Glories, etc, BECAUSE I had a chance to preview them beforehand. I've previewed other comics and began following them that way as well. Other comics get previewed and never bought/collected because they suck.
In fact, I met Joe Eisma, the badass penciller of Morning Glories at a con a few months ago. I bought some issues from him (A) because he sold them at cover price WITH a free autograph and (B) because I needed those issues and (C) I wanted him to see me put my money where my mouth is. I told him I read the first, I dunno, four or five issues of Morning Glories through CBR files and then began collecting the book proper once the next subsequent issue came along.
Eisma? He (the COPYRIGHT OWNER) didn't. Give. A shit. He said he'd heard that a hundred times at a hundred cons. People are afraid to experiment with new titles at these cover prices so a lot of them preview the issues first through illegal downloads (let's call the practice what it is) and then they turn right around and buy trades or follow the monthly book or whatever. He said that illegal downloads help get the word out about his work. He views it as another marketing tool (albeit one he has zero control over).
And folks, I'm not the only person I know personally who's found new titles in this manner. Eisma is right. Every single serious collector I know has previewed comics in this way. The people who abuse downloads are the people that you'll never get a fucking nickel from anyway. Ergo you stand only to benefit from permitting the practice.
Anyway. There's more shit I could write but this is a Charles Dickens novel already. Sorry for the length. But I said from the start that my perspective is different. So there you go.
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Re: DCnU- Rearranging Deck Chairs On The Titanic?
Well nice first books doing record sales. But like ap said before I think watch in a few issues it will probably drop fast.
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